Total Pageviews

Thursday, March 11, 2010

When funny becomes derisive, and inappropriate......


Hi ladies. Sorry it's been so long. I'm consulting on a big RE project and I've hardly even had time for my family..... so lets not waste any time now.....


I think a lot of bw are so busy looking at the small frames, they fail to see the big picture. What I mean by that remark is that so many people never bother to look down the road and make a calculated guess as to how their present actions will affect their future. This is something I have never understood, but this seems to be a common trait in the bc. For instance, think about all the movies you see with bp acting like common fools. A few off the top of my head are:

booty call
I got the hook up
house of pain
how high
have baked etc.

I notice other cultures seem to have an vested interest in their present, future, and the future of their offspring, and the offspring of their race that seems to be decidedly lacking in American blacks. I'm not sure how this came to be or why, but it's completely obvious to anyone who cares to investigate it. I remember reading a book a few years ago, in which a white Author was addressing a bm (who had asked, why bp were not getting the respect they deserved)

The author told him plainly and succinctly: "You've always entertained us whites with your comedic ways, and clowning. The problem is -no one respects a clown"
I remember feeling struck by his words, and a bit stung. But I knew they were true. Too many, far far too many bp shuck and jive and giggle at the most inappropriate things, all the while wondering why the world does NOT take them seriously. My question is, if you've set yourself up as the world clown, how do you ever expect to be taken seriously? Can you see Obama becoming President as a shucking, jiving, giggling fool? Do you think Oprah would have ever become a talk show queen if she was a large, giggling, silly, cackling jester?
I remember being in Arizona visiting one of my very successful book Author, cousin. We were downtown, and there was a military parade going on. At the end of the parade a black limo stopped and General Powell stepped out (he was a general then)He was surrounded by soldiers-who immediately jumped to attention. But, he made such a commanding presence, that even the civilians (of all races) jumped from their cars and immediately saluted him. My cousin who's is a pretty well-known author and rarely impressed by anyone, was practically in tears he was so honored to be in his presence. Some people actually were in tears! It was an experience I have never forgotten. The very air around him seem charged with the energy of a leader, and commander.....

Certainly few of us have his aura, and charisma. But all of us can be taken more seriously, and command ordinary respect by the way we carry ourselves and interact on a daily basis. Now, I have nothing against humor at all, I think it's a wonderful life ingredient that ameliorates the pleasures in life. But for some people it becomes a tool for a slovenly life, filled with stagnated nothingness, and covered up with dangerous laughter. Or, sometimes it's used as a weapon of veiled hatred and pain to be welded at hapless, and unarmed victims....

What I mean by that is,I've seen humor used in a harmless fashion to lighten a heavy load, yet, I've also seen it used many times to bring people to their knees and treat them in ways that defy decency.
(think about how you felt as a bw, to hear D L. Hugley laugh about what Imus said)

Also, I think it's just plain dangerous to laugh at some things. It normalizes and lessons the impact of the damage they cause. For exp. I remember hearing comedian Sherl Underwood joking about R. Kelly molesting little girls. She went on to joke that every time he molested a child he had a hit record, so he needed to hit someone else because he needed another "hit" The audience howled with laughter, but to me it just felt wrong to laugh at something like that. I just don't see it as a joke. I know bp often joke about things to relieve the ponderous weight of some issues, but how come Jews never laugh at the holocaust? How come Indians don't laugh about the pain of reservation life? How come the Irish don't laugh about their civil war that's gone on in their country for years? Could it be perhaps, because these things are held sacrosanct and above the silly jokes, that some would make of them?

Today, we see many comedians and ordinary men laughing at the plight of bw. I believe it's because when the jokes first became inappropriate, no one said anything, and now they've grown out of proportion, but the world is so used to laughing at us, it's no longer a big deal. Many bw today are suffering horribly and yet many people are still laughing and treating it as a joke. I actually heard bm on a website I won't mention, laughing about the murder of the bw/wm couple last year! It' almost like nothing is off limits anymore. It's like watching an entire race of women swimming in a river of pain, as the people laugh on...
Just my opinion, but I think the joke is really on us-and it's not funny.....

160 comments:

Anonymous said...

Well stated sister.

Anonymous said...

I've missed you.

rainebeaux said...

Okay, what soulless, sociopathic jive turkeys are laughing at MURDER, and at the Pietrzaks' (sp?) to boot?! Never mind, I answered my own question. *sad face*


The joke IS on us, and I ain't laughing either. Heck, my sense of humor is all but dead at this point. Oh wait...is this the selfsame Sheryl Underwood who was shooting her mouth off with the "nuthin' but a BM/i can't get a WM" jive a while back!? See, now I'm really depressed...and disgusted.


I'd recommend the documentary Why We Laugh to get a sense of how we got to this point, but it may tick you off even more.

sTep_INside_mY_miNd said...

Thank you sista! Once again you have hit the truth one the head with a large hammer of reality. It's so sad but true how the BC still find coonery, disrepect and violence against black women so funny and acceptable. I am sure you have heard of the lastest slap of ignorance aka Freaknik the Musical.

Anonymous said...

Welcome Back!

Sara you are absolutely correct. I used to have a bw roommate and I would tell her those jokes that some bm comedians would tell were not that funny. Some of those jokes were just mean sprited. I think she thought I was being sensitive. IMO, my friend was rather naive.

ann

NijaG said...

Very insightful post.

I stopped watching majority of black comediennes a long time ago. I'm not really a big comedy fan anyway, but it seems like over the years it has just been getting more and more vulgar and crasser.

I've noticed this especially when it comes to relationship and sex topics. I can barely stand to listen to what they are saying because their delivery is most times very disgusting.

Don't even get me started on the little I've seen on their topic about Black women.

Anonymous said...

Question...Am I being racist?

I am taking a Spanish class and usually some of the class members can be a little vociferous. Tonight, we had an exam and I expected my instructor to be in his usual OK, put the books away and lets take our exam frame of mind.
But, for some reason he was rather loose and allowing people a chance to look over their notes. He asked me did I need more time and said, "No, I will go ahead and take the exam". This class makes me a little anxious.

SIDENOTE...
The actual time for the class is 7:15 p.m. He begins teaching at 7:00 pm because he wants to go home as soon as possible. I believe it was mid-February when I told him that my other class does not let out until 7:05 p.m. he said he would wait, although he sometimes will still begin teaching earlier. Anyway,two weeks ago my instructor allowed a 20something w/female from one of his earlier classes to switch to our class. From day one she would arrive late and she speaks loudly.
Someone asked her a question and she boast I have a B in his class.
OK, no problem there.
The instructor began asking a few Spanish questions and you guest it half the questions she anwered were not exactly correct.

Back to the exam... I was trying to focus on my exam and she loudly was talking to the instructor. She worked my last nerve and I just had to turn in her direction and say, "I am trying to take an exam". I then went back to my exam. lol, the class got super quite after that.
A few minutes later a b/female walks into the class and states rather loudly, "Wow, everybody started already?" and as she passes by me still talking loudly she exclaims, "Wow, everybody is ready to rock". To be fair I did give her a shhh. After that the class was back to being quite.

When the w/female turned in her paper the instructor who is a hm walked her outside so they could have a talk. Hmmm, wtf? I thought is he apolizing for me? When I turned in my paper he did not walked me outside and have a talk; but, he did say good night.

I kept thinking maybe I was being racist. But, I have told quite a few 20something b/students to hush the noise. Again, was I being racist or should I care?

ann

shimmy said...

I so agree with you. I've also noticed on a lot of tv shows, black people are always on there acting stupid and ghetto. It seem like some get an enjoyment out of acting like clowns. They don't realize that people, especially racist non blacks, are not laughing with them. They are laughing at them. It's so embarassing. It always reminds me of blackface. They don't realize what they're doing is an insult to our black ancestors that fought hard to be taken seriously.

Humor can be both a good and bad thing. I think many black people use it negatively. They use it to hurt other black people that appear vulnerable or don't fit into "acting black behavior".They use it as a way to knock each other down and insult each other. That's why I don't believe in this black unity crap, because many black people don't uplift each other. They have sort of a culture of laughing and tearing each other down.It's really sad

I just wanted also to say I love the new pictures too.

Miss.v said...

where av u been sister, nice post as usual :)

MissASP said...

I missed you Sarah! Good luck with your real estate thing. More posts on self esteem and good choices, please! Those r very helpful.

clarice said...

Welcome back. This is an excellent post. It is also yet another reason women need to have the courage to go their own way and establish the standard by which they will be treated. Clearly the collective world has lost their sense of self. Your actions, reactions and words teach people how to treat you and you can separate yourself from the pack by your actions and your words. You can show people better than you can tell them. Words have power and can build up or break down - use your words wisely.

V/r

Clarice

Jazine said...

Well, just about all the black comedic shows have become totally unwatchable. Certain types of blacks feel they are being ‘cute’ by acting the fool in front of others, especially white people. I really feel it was Martin Lawrence’s 90s show Martin that resurrected black coonery/buffonery on a world stage. As the show progressed in its popularity, it steadily regressed into black people acting like downright fools to fantastic proportions. Black comedic feature films are very coarse and downright barbaric. The brand of humor is disgusting and raw. Why some black people hold on to playing the dozens like it’s a beloved pet is beyond my comprehension. I see blacks in my workplace acting this way with each other. No boundaries.

Back in the day black actors acted these stereotypes because they were limited in what they could do in this country. But a lot of those same actors performed dramatic roles and started black theater troupes where they were able to live out their dream of acting in dignified roles. Nowadays blacks willingly embrace coonery and acting like fools in a world that no longer holds back their choices.

Sophisticatedblkwoman said...

I've missed you too Sara, glad to see you back.

BWF said...

I never liked the Chappelle Show, lots of people thought it was just "so funny". But I never got the appeal, too much buffoonery for my taste.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Cassie said...

As the blogger for "What About Our Daughters" pointed out, there are no repercussions for mocking black women. She highlighted Toure's twitters where he claimed that Black women seduced White men and used their booties to get ahead during slavery.

On another blog, Black men are actually stating that Black women were not raped during slavery, and that they engaged in consensual relationships with their masters.

Do we respect ourselves as Blacks? I just wonder sometimes. That's why we can laugh at (and rationalize) things that other races would not find funny.

I want a Jon Hamm said...

This comment isnt for the entry, but rather for the caption for the first photo- it is from the show Mad Men when the character Paul Kinsey started to date an AAW named Sheila. If you wanna watch that episode its called "Flight 1" Episode 2:Season 2

Anonymous said...

@ Cassie...Why would you purposely follow that particular man?


lois

Anonymous said...

You're so on point with this point Sarah! It is so indescribable how infuriating and sad it is to know just how much pleasure the Black "community" gets out of denigrating Black females. There's a new post on MTO about Jamie Foxx going in on actress Gabourey Sidibe (Precious) for her looks and saying she looks like Biggie Smalls. Not even a hand full of people are defending her because what was said was disrespectful or because she's young, female, and trying to lose weight. Most are spouting off with that "He's right!", "It's a joke!", "He's a comedian, get over it!" bullsh1t.

No other race of comdians run their mouths about their own women like this. When other comedians talk about women, they're talking in the general. They're not 'going in' on their women, in public, talking about EVERYTHING that is wrong with their women, real or not.

Ann C. said...

Sara,

I pray this finds you well. This is an excellent post. I have always believed that the phrase "Oh, I was just joking" usually is about something that is not even funny.

I want to mention the situation also with Gabourey Sidibe, but in connection with Howard Stern. It is interesting, to say the least, that the whole incident with Howard Stern and his faithful pickaninny sidekick Robin Quivers calling this young lady "enormous" and "untalented" went unmentioned by most BM. Especially when Kayne West rained on Taylor Swift's parade, everyone including BM had something to say. But I haven't heard one rebuttal from a BM and now reading about Jamie Foxx's comment, as usual, they are jumping on the bandwagon. This should be an example to all the BW who still think that BM have "their backs." There is not only any loyalty, but no respect. And I believe this contributes to why BW are held in no regard by a large number of people in the world. But I am willing to bet that if something had been said derogatory about a BM, then Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Tom Joyner, and every other BM in the media would have had their lips flapping on television and radio.

Another thing I wanted to mention was the joke by Sherl Underwood on R. Kelly. Comedienne Sommore tells a joke that as long as a man holds her breasts a certain way, he could be raping her and she wouldn't care." Now, I don't know about any other woman, but being raped or rape period is not funny. For all the women (including myself)who have been assaulted by a man, in particular a stranger, there is no joke.

To go back to Ms. Sidibe, I really have to applaud her because of her great sense of self. If you notice as I have, she is also very smart. When asked about men that she has a crush on, she mentions Gerald Butler, Bradley Cooper, and other non-BM. I don't know her personally, but I believe this young lady already knows what a lot of BW twice her age seem not to get: that BM do not find her attractive, so she will not waste her time with them. And if they do, they will probably want to use her now that she is famous to get what they can out of her and ride her coattail(i.e. Jennifer Hudson).


In an earlier posted column, someone blogged in that there is a lack of respect for BW and I totally agree with them.

JaliliMaster said...

Ann C. said...


“I want to mention the situation also with Gabourey Sidibe, but in connection with Howard Stern. It is interesting, to say the least, that the whole incident with Howard Stern and his faithful pickaninny sidekick Robin Quivers calling this young lady "enormous" and "untalented" went unmentioned by most BM. Especially when Kayne West rained on Taylor Swift's parade, everyone including BM had something to say. But I haven't heard one rebuttal from a BM and now reading about Jamie Foxx's comment, as usual, they are jumping on the bandwagon. This should be an example to all the BW who still think that BM have "their backs." There is not only any loyalty, but no respect. And I believe this contributes to why BW are held in no regard by a large number of people in the world. But I am willing to bet that if something had been said derogatory about a BM, then Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Tom Joyner, and every other BM in the media would have had their lips flapping on television and radio.”

“To go back to Ms. Sidibe, I really have to applaud her because of her great sense of self. If you notice as I have, she is also very smart. When asked about men that she has a crush on, she mentions Gerald Butler, Bradley Cooper, and other non-BM. I don't know her personally, but I believe this young lady already knows what a lot of BW twice her age seem not to get: that BM do not find her attractive, so she will not waste her time with them. And if they do, they will probably want to use her now that she is famous to get what they can out of her and ride her coattail(i.e. Jennifer Hudson).”


My reply:

There is nothing ‘offensive’ about referring to someone as ‘untalented’. Talent, after all, is in the eye of the beholder. I haven’t watched any movie that Gabourey Sidibe has been in, and seeing as ‘Precious’ was her first, and so far, only film, I still can’t say I can judge see her talent, as such films have no appeal to me whatsoever. I am trying to understand why it so offensive to refer to a morbidly obese 27 year old woman as ‘enormous’. She has little sympathy from me in that regard, the same way all these bony anorexic celebs have no sympathy from me when they are referred to as.......anorexic. That is exactly what they are. It is not an insult.

And in terms of her very embarrassing public remarks of other men (I’ve heard her speak in sexual terms of/to Gerard Butler, Justin Timberlake and Ryan Seacrest), she needs to stop it. She is a grown woman who does not seem to realise that most of these people are just humouring her out of pity. And from someone who never bites her tongue when it comes to BM and their damaged behaviour, you are way off base when you said something along the lines of her being smart having crushes on these other non-BM, as BM will not find her attractive. Any woman reading this who thinks the average White, Asian or Latino men will find Ms Sidibe more attractive than the average BM, or, would be in anyway more willing to date her than the average BM is, amongst other things, very delusional!

It is very obvious that this woman, along with her co-star Monique, have very low self-esteem. Take Monique for example: She is so grateful that the creature she refers to as her husband is still with her, that she permits his infidelity, and even tries to praise it as ‘revolutionary’. Look at her body of work, such as ‘Phat girls’. If after viewing that nonsense, you still think Monique is a respectable woman with a good opinion of herself, then you are probably just like her. I know that it will be difficult for some of the readers to understand why it is easy for everyone else to see Gabourey’s low self-esteem. She tries to put on this uber-confident, “I don’t care what anyone else thinks” attitude, but her actions and words betray her.

Foxycleopatra said...

@ ann March 11, 2010 11:25 PM

To be honest, I'm not sure wether I completely understand your question because I don't see anything racist whatsoever about what you did. You were having an exam, they were making noise, you told them to 'sshhh'. Whether or not you also told the bg is more or less irrelevant bcos the wg was behaving inappropriately. As for the teacher himself, if I was in your shoes, I would find a way of reporting him without getting my self in trouble. If the school you go to is a Spanish school with predominantly Spanish admin, then that might be a probs. If on the other hand, you will be leaving shortly and will not have to bother with this guy anymore, well then what you do is completely up to you. As to your question, as I said before, I do not see anything racist on your part whatsoever about what happened.

shimmy said...

I think it is very disturbing how common it's becoming for black women to be disrespected by all kinds of people. The men and so called black community that should be protecting us from sexist and racist insults even take stabs at agreeing with the anti black female perpetrators. All you have to do is look at Don Imus. I remember D.L. Hughley got on Jay Leno's show and basically repeated and agreed with Don Imus.You can see the video segment on youtube.

I'm not sure when this viscious anti black woman thing started. It seem like now it's just getting worse and worse. I feel we are being discriminated against for being both black and female in the black community and mainstream society.

I'm going to post the links to two articles that I feel every black woman should read. It's been awhile since they were posted, but you can see how relevant they are today.

link #1- http://www.tributetoblackwomen.com/articles/openseason.htm



link #2-http://dateawhiteguy.blogspot.com/2007/07/essays-virulent-racio-misogyny-in-black.html

Foxycleopatra said...

Concerning the post;

Well to be honest, most of these things dont bother me anymore. I am past caring what 'anti-bw' comedians of any race do. I vote with my money by not supporting them. It is just so unfortunate that there are so many bw out there who do not value themselves and will continue to line the pockets and fatten the accounts of people who degrade and debase them.

As for bp in general who like to engage in all sorts of coonery, well all I do is separate myself from them. I find nothing amusing about black folks making fools out of themselves all in the name of humour, but lets be honest, we always want to say that they are 'shucking and jiving' and trying to entertain white folks but lets take a further look at this. As a previous commenter said, in 'those days' black enetrtainers didn't really have much choice as that is all they were allowed to do in 'white' media but when they could, they formed their own theatre companies and followed their respectable dreams. Today on the other hand most of the 'cooning' type of characters are now mostly created and propagated by black folks. Who exactly is forcing them to do that?

1. Madea which degrades black women created by Tyler Perry (a black man)
2. The Nutty Proffesor which mocks black ppl created by Eddie Murphy (a black man)
3. Norbit which mocks black women created by Eddie Muphy (a black man).
4. Big Momma's house which mocks black women created by Martin Lawrence (a black man).
5. The Martin Show which mostly mocks black men created by Martin Lawrence (a black man)
6. Wanda and Shenene which mocks and degrades black women created by Jamie Foxx and Martin Lawrence ( both are black men)

So are we really going to put this on whites? Also, majority of the people who support this crap are black folks (both male and female).

I will not even start on the gutter nonsense that is Flava Flav's 'love' show, HipHop music of today, DefJam comedy etc. All these either degrade black women or mock black people at large, yet their biggest audiences are by far black people!!!

Until black people begin to respect themselves and value their image, no one else will!!

It is left up to individual black people (as opposed to black people as a group) to separate themselves from such coonery, not support ANY OF IT (which includes hip hop music) and support those who show respect for you and themselves.

Foxycleopatra said...

2. You said (to paraphrase) that she knows that a lot of bm dont find her attractive and so she s smart for going for the white Gerard Butlers. Sorry to burst your bubble, but lets be completely honest here. Are you telling me that you believe that men of whatever race are going to be running after a Gabourey Sidibe??? There is a GIANT PINK WITH BLUE AND YELLOW POLKA DOTS ELEPHANT standing in the middle of the room but everyone wants to pretend that they cannot see it. Gabourey Sidibe is a morbidly obese woman. NONE of the men u mentioned are morbidly obese. EVERY SINGLE ONE of the men I have seen her 'checking for' and salivating over are not only not morbidly obese, but they are very physically fit men who obviously take care of their health. Would she check for them if they were her size?? We both know the honest answer to that question.

I am sick of seeing obese black women complain that attractive non-black men (and even black men as well) are not giving them attention. I was on an ir blog about a year and a half ago where the black women there were complaining that although they were getting attention from white men, it wasn't any of the wm that they found physically attractive. They then said that the white men who they find physically attractive only date white/latino/asian women who were physically fit. I then asked them that where these physically fit white men excluding bw from their dating pool. They said that no, these physically fit wm also dated bw but only dated bw who were also physically fit (i.e eat well, go to the gym, were not overweight etc). Also, these physically fit wm did not date overweight white/latino/asian woman either. So these women did not have an issue with these men dating physically fit non-bw but only with them dating physically fit bw because it took away their excuse that wm were not dating them bcos they were black. Also, these women were actually getting a lot of attention from white men, but they were wm who physically,were the white and male version of these bw. Yet they had the gall to see why they would find a physically fit man who takes care of himself more attractive than an overweight man but could not see why a physically fit man would find a physically fit woman who takes care of herself more attractive than an overweight woman!

......continued below

Foxycleopatra said...

Ann C said:

"To go back to Ms. Sidibe, I really have to applaud her because of her great sense of self. If you notice as I have, she is also very smart. When asked about men that she has a crush on, she mentions Gerald Butler, Bradley Cooper, and other non-BM. I don't know her personally, but I believe this young lady already knows what a lot of BW twice her age seem not to get: that BM do not find her attractive, so she will not waste her time with them. And if they do, they will probably want to use her now that she is famous to get what they can out of her and ride her coattail(i.e. Jennifer Hudson)."



Ok I am going to keep it real here. I have seen that a lot of bw want to pretend that Gabi Sidibe is the bees knees but I will tell the complete truth!

1. First and foremost, you said that she has a great sense of self. What exactly does that mean? Listening to her in interviews and observing her crass and childish behaviour in public, it is not hard to see that this woman has serious self esteem issues. She tries to cover it up by pretending to be self-confident but for those who know anything about psychology and human behaviour, it is obvious.
What sort of lady solicits a man, let alone in public? This girl was on the read carpet and making comments about 'hitting' (i.e having sex with) Gerard Butler and some bw want to pretend that it is cute. Just because the guy decided to humour her and flirt back, some bw, want to jump for joy saying that 'oh he likes the big sistas'. Well one question, if it was Kerry Washington or Gabrielle Union, do you think Gerry Butler would have reacted the same way? NO HE WOULDNT. He would have been embarassed at being approached that way but because of this belief that any attention that a big girl gets, she should be grateful for it, alot of people (several big black girls themselves) will not see it for what it is. For eg, when Chris Rock showed her complete and utter disrespect by grabbing her behind, is it that no one could see that for what it was. Even Gabi's reaction surprised me. She was joking about it behaving like it was a normal thing for a man to do to a woman!



....continued below

Foxycleopatra said...

3. Gabourey Sidibe needs to take some sort of etiquette training cos she does not know how to behave or carry herself as a lady. When she came to the UK, she did a round of interviews and every time she opened her mouth, she would just say something so stupid that it would make me cringe. Smart my derrierre!! At first I used to pass it off cos I thought that maybe she was just a kid but when I found out that she was 26, I was like 'sorry but you are an adult'. Also, she better get some sort of publicist to train her on general hollywodd stuff and the kinds of things you would and would not say in public bcos from what I have seen it might not take long for her to one day say some ish that will land her in trouble.

4. You said some stuff about bm riding her coat tail now that she is famous. Ummm...sorry but anyone can ride her coat tail if she lets them. If she is going to be silly enough to let some no good bm who would not have spit on her if she was on fire before to come now and get whatever from her, well what can I say. The same way that if she lets a wm/hm/am who would not have given a hoot about her b4, to come now it would still be the same thing.

Foxycleopatra said...

As for that fool called Toure who wrote that nonsense on twitter, I would like to know where the Al Sharptons and Jesse Jacksons are now! The problem is that it has reached a point where there are no repercussions whatsoever about degrading bw. When I read the stuff that guy wrote about bw using their bodies during slavery, it made me sick!

I believe that bw forming some sort of anti-defamation league type of organisation (like the Jews did) might be the answer because we do not have any protection from anyone so we have to look out for ourselves. Forget the useless NAACP. If their reaction to Dunbar hasn't let you know what they are about, then I don't know what will. Stop giving your money and manpower in support of these organisations that dont support you!!!

Mary said...

i think a large majority of bm simply have no self respect. it's not about you, me or bw, they simply have no self respect. they're the ultimate bullies, anyone that won't fight back will be their victims. bw don't want to fight back so we as a group will be victims for a long time. other groups don't have to worry about bm cause their men have self respect and will not take any nonsense; but we bw (being women of the same group as bm) we're kinda screwed cause no one will fight for us and for some bizarre reason, we don't want to fight for ourselves.

i started noticing this huge lack of self-respect in bm during undergrad when i would notice supposedly intelligent bm (in the honors programs) completely make a fool of themselves just to make their white friends laugh. it was so common and shameful. and it was always BM!!!! i don't know why but it was always BM!! sadly enough, now i'm in professional school and nothing has changed. b/c i am in professional school, there are very few blacks in my program. there is this bm that acts so much a fool, he's starting to get negative attention from professors. an example of the tom foolery, is when we're in lecture. most of our teachers are foreigners. This poor teacher has an accent and pronounces something wrong/funny. stupid bm starts howling with laughter!! Howling!!! the class, mostly white, starts laughing. this is a mild example of the tomfoolery btw, there was a time he literally got on the floor and was rolling around laughing. Wtf. i just don't understand how a person gets to this point.

the sad thing is, black people would not be in the bottom if this world was a female dominated world. but it's a male dominated world and bm simply don't measure up.

HarleyQ said...

I have stopped watching BET because of the images of black people are always the same (low level). I hate comedians who purposely put down BW under the guise of comedy. I believe american history shows that the only way blacks were accepted is through comedy. That is the reason why the token black person in movies are always the loud, stupid acting comic relief. To change that image we have to show people that there is more us than being the clown.

Sky said...

First off welcome back sara...


Ana C...

I've noticed this too as I sit back and watched this whole sherade on Gabby S. from Howard Stern. And yes they are once again, jumpin on the bandwagon. But you know what, they did not disappoint. Gabby has flirted w/ Gerard Butler himself...

http://www.youtube.com/
watch?v=T9QHaaV0NtY

Can you believe on some blogs, they were discouraging Gabby from doing so in the future. I'm thinkin' "Wow they don't even want bw to flirt w/ non-bm". Even going how dare she act that way towards him (yeah a black blog site) and how rude of her. Yeah I bet if she said to Gerard to Jamie Foxx everyone would be high-fiving her.

Take for instance Kirstie Alley who said explicitly she wants to have a one-night stand w/ Jamie Foxx. Not only did she mention it on Oprah, Jamie himself did a surprise satellite visit for her, telling her he's down for it. YET! Mr. Foxx is ready to jump on Gabby for her weight??? Really??? So now being over-weight is now acceptable on ww, but not bw?

Like you said Ana C. Gabby is a smart woman, because if she dealt w/ bm, they would be confusing her and using her. So far many directors (white) want to work w/ Gabby and so far they are the ones reporting on Howard Stern's ass and blasting him for it...not bm. I guess this is their way of "getting back" at black women for uncovering the sexual expoiltation of bw in the BC.

I suggest she stick w/ that group(whites in hollywood cuz they have more power and they can shut down the likes of Howard Stern and Jamie Foxx in a heart beat) like Halle and Kerry, otherwise you'll be scraping for roles like Nina Long and Sanna Lathan.

BW MOVE ON!!!

Anonymous said...

Society is very crass and rude today. There are some things that should just be kept to ones self, but are blurted out in public because the person is 'keeping it real' or 'just telling the truth.' My problem is that no one asked for your opinion. If Jamie, Howard, or anyone else has a problem with the way Gabby looks then they should either approach her in private or shut their mouth. Insulting someone in the public light is very hurtful (think of how many celebrities have went on starvation diets or gotten plastic surgery because some gossip mag called them fat/ugly), and only encourages more people to attack that person, especially someone like Gabby who is overweight, black, and a woman. It's not like anyone is commenting on Gabby's looks to help her. Is there anybody out there who thinks Gabby hasn't heard that she's fat and unattractive before? So why does everyone keep bringing it up with such relish?

And I honestly think that even if she does manage to lose the weight, some people will still make fun of her looks. Being slim didn't help the Williams sisters, Tameka Raymond, Michelle Obama(yes there are people - dems, repubs, blacks, and whites - online who call Michelle ugly and say the nastiest things about her looks, and that's besides the ones who compare her to a monkey in public), or the girls on the Rutgers basketball team. Again, this is just my opinion, but I think people really do believe it's okay to say whatever they want about another person, no matter how rude, under the guise of being real. There's no such thing as being polite or respectful in our culture anymore. Just because you think something doesn't mean you should actually say it. That's why we have the phrase 'think before you speak,' not 'say whatever the h*ll you want no matter who it hurts.'

Ann C. said...

@ Jalilimaster:

It is true that talent is in the eye of the beholder. The problem with the comments that were made by Stern & Quivers is that they are, as the old folks would say, "to break her down." And no, it is not the same with the anorexic women. Because I have not heard either one of them make comments on any skinny WW. As a matter of fact, society rarely does. Now, true, she does need to lose some weight, even if it is just for health reasons. Well, the same goes for very thin women. There is nothing attractive in looking like a bone just as there is nothing attractive about walking around with excessive weight on your body. My point in the comment was if you are going to call her out, then you call out EVERYBODY "BIG AND/OR UNTALENTED." Because there are a lot of heavy and/or untalented women in Hollywood. All you have to do is turn on the TV or go to the movies. Why is she being singled out? When that young lady in "Hairspray" Nikki Blosky was all over the news, I didn't hear any nasty comments about her being "big & untalented" and yet, that was her first film as well. Why are these two young ladies treated different by the media? I think that is the bigger question that needs to be answered.

In reference to what you said about Monique, I never mentioned her in my comment because, quite frankly, I don't care for her. Also, I did not see Phat Girls. Why would I go see a movie about some nonsense when I know it is nonsense before I EVEN GET TO THE MOVIE THEATER? Now, Monique and Gaborney are two different people and I don't see them as being nothing alike. It is as we have said on this blog before, some BW, are just a lost cause (Monique). Anytime you say that you don't mind if your husband cheats, it okay to be big, and my "favorite": if your man pops you in your mouth, you deserved it for not keeping your mouth shut. And let me say, sweetheart, I am nothing like Monique. First of all, I am at 50 years of age and honey, I have NEVER EVER held BM on no pedestal and gave them free rein to do as they please to me and never will.

But there is still hope for Gaborney. She is young at 26. If she gets with someone who will be a good influence on her and guide her correctly, she will be alright. Yes, she needs to change some things about her, but what BW doesn't?

As for non-BM or other men finding her attractive or not, you don't know that. Neither do I. As I have said before on this blog, it doesn't matter how skinny, big, skin tone, whatever, if you have no personality or it is straight stank, don't NO MAN or anybody for that matter, wants to be bothered with you. Sidibe has the personality. Which brings me to the point of saying that she has a sense of self. I said that because she doesn't follow what the world says. If she did, she would be just like the girl she played in Precious. But even though she is a dark-skinned BW, she doesn't let that hinder her in her quest to become an actress. Good for her!

Ann C. said...

@ Foxycleopatra

My point about Sidibe flirting with Butler, talking about Timberlake, etc. is just simply she is open to relationships with non-BM. I would much rather hear her talk about them then saying she want to get with Flava Flav or Lil Wayne. You said that if it were Washington or Union, would he have reacted the same way? Probably. Butler is known to flirt with women all the time. That's what he does. And it was just that with Sidibe: flirting. What, she can't flirt because she's heavy and a BW?

Okay, I didn't see or know about the Chris Rock incident. But then, it doesn't surprise me because it is Chris Rock and he is ignorant and thinks very little about BW. If he grabbed her behind, then it is disrespectful and he did it, probably knowing she wouldn't do anything about it. Well, like I said before, she is new to the Hollywood scene and with time and some guidance, she will know what to say and do and what not to say and do.

Now, as for non-BM running behind her, again, we don't know this. Yes, she needs to lose the weight. But that is not the only thing that makes up a person. If that is the case, then why do all of the Jennifer Aniston, Kate Hudson, etc. have a hard time keeping a man? Because it takes more than that. Look at all of the WM that are leaving these WW. I mean, they are thin, are considered what the world calls beautiful, yet, these men are dropping their behinds left and right. As I said a few sentences ago, no man wants a woman, I don't care what she looks like, who is complaining, moaning, conceited, self-centered and thinks the world revolves around her. What I like about Sidibe is that she needs to lose the weight, but she is not obsessed about it. For example, Oprah, that's all she talks about is her looks. It takes more than looks to get and keep a man just like it takes more than looks to get and keep a woman. If what is underneath them looks is stanky, then soon enough them looks and that skinny, thin body will not make a bit of difference.

Sporty said...

And if they do, they will probably want to use her now that she is famous to get what they can out of her and ride her coattail(i.e. Jennifer Hudson).

James Payton clearly loved and remained loyal to Jennifer Hudson years before she ever became famous and when she did, she dumped him for the muscle bound pretty boy, David Otunga, with the "good hair".

Ann C. said...

@ Sky:

"Can you believe on some blogs, they were discouraging Gabby from doing so in the future. I'm thinkin' "Wow they don't even want bw to flirt w/ non-bm". Even going how dare she act that way towards him (yeah a black blog site) and how rude of her. Yeah I bet if she said to Gerard to Jamie Foxx everyone would be high-fiving her.

Take for instance Kirstie Alley who said explicitly she wants to have a one-night stand w/ Jamie Foxx. Not only did she mention it on Oprah, Jamie himself did a surprise satellite visit for her, telling her he's down for it. YET! Mr. Foxx is ready to jump on Gabby for her weight??? Really??? So now being over-weight is now acceptable on ww, but not bw?"

Thank You!!!! And let's not forget comedienne Lisa Lapanelli who wrote a book called' "Chocolate Please" where she explicitly talks about how she like "chocolate d" and her love of BM. I saw here on a comedy show sitting next to a BM comedian and she told him how she loves what's between his legs. Now, here is a heavy, big WW talking raunchy about a BM's private parts and yet I didn't hear a peep out of BW, BM, BP, BC, etc. As a matter of fact, the BM comedian laughed.

Here's the thing: if you are going call one woman out on what she says, call them all out. Just like you said about Alley and Foxx, it is okay for a big WW to talk about sexing a BM, it's teasing and flirting. But when a big BW does it, it's wrong.

It would seem this goes deeper than just her weight. Even if and when she does lose the weight, what's the guarantee she will get roles and be accepted in Hollywood? If that's the case, why are all of the other BW in Hollywood having a hard time getting parts? The truth is, they will find something else wrong with her (she is too dark, she doesn't have "the look"). So, yes, I do applaud her because she is going to live her life HER way, and as a BW in this sexist, racist world, that is always the best way to go.

Sara, I apologize for the three comments that went off topic, but I wanted to give some clarification to my comment.

Sharon said...

Jalilimaster said:

"And in terms of her very embarrassing public remarks of other men (I’ve heard her speak in sexual terms of/to Gerard Butler, Justin Timberlake and Ryan Seacrest), she needs to stop it. She is a grown woman who does not seem to realise that most of these people are just humouring her out of pity."

That sounds a lot like when BM say that the only reason WM are with BW is because they want an "ethnic experience or a taste of black meat." They can't be attracted to BW, the reason has to have an underline negative connotation. And unless you have personally spoken with Mr. Butler, Timberlake, or Seacress, how do you know what they are thinking and/or feeling?

Pam Grier's love child said...

foxycleopatra is right; she's just being honest, and I think we should all be honest with each other.

Sidibe is not just "overweight". She is morbidly obese. Dangerously obese.

I love her to death, and I thought she great in her role in "Precious", but facts are stubborn things. We don't do other BW any favors by calling her merely "heavy" or "overweight". It gives black girls the implicit sense that her weight is merely a little above normal. That is simply not true.

Now, I'm not apologising for those who mock her. That's not right.

I'm certain she is acutely aware of how obese she is, and would like to do something about it. Hopefully she will, as that much weight is very dangerous from a health perspective.

It is wrong for people to insult her, to ridicule her in public.

It is also wrong to not acknowledge the truth of the matter; that she is killing herself with calories and putting herself at risk for major health problems, that the overwhelming majority of men (all races, but particularly non-BM) do not find her body type attractive, and that the path through her personal and professonal life will be more difficult as a result of her obesity.

I don't think foxycleopatra was off base in her comments.

Foxycleopatra said...

@ Anna C,

I get what you are saying and for the most parts, I agree with you. What I am referring to though are mindsets. To explain myself fully, I will address your points one by one:


1. You mentioned kirstie Alley, the girl from hairspray and Lisa Lamponelli. You said that why are ww 'allowed' to be overweight while bw are not. First and foremost, none of the aforementioned women are 'overweight'. The first three are obese while Gabi is morbidly obese. There is a difference btw carrying a little extra weight, being overweight, being obese and being morbidly obese. Stop putting them all in the same category. There are several women who may be carrying a little extra weight or even be overweight and still be healthy/physically fit. This is because sometimes, body shape could play a part. Secondly, black women have much more lee-way in terms of weight allowance than white women. Lets not even front about that one. It is a double edged sword. On the good side, it means that a lot of bw might feel less need to succumb to the size zero craziness and might actually be considered more attractive than say for eg, a ww of similar size (I can think of quite a number of overweight bw that are considered attractive/sexy but can barely think of any ww). Also, there is a much more diverse representation eg, black supermodels (who are slim) and black video models...cough...cough...video hos...cough who are curvier (ie have the booty n all). Majority of famous ww who make 'sexiest woman/ most beautiful' etc are more or less on the slimmer side. So this actually works out good for bw. On the negative side though, when other women are taking their appearance seriously, a lot of bw choose to take it for granted bcos they believe that they will have more lee-way.



....continued below

Foxycleopatra said...

@ Anna C,

2. As for the bm that were jubilating over kirstie alley and lisa lamponelli, well to be honest, i could not give a monkeys. It is themselves and themselves alone that they are embarassing. It is this same Lisa Lamponelli who said that she only dates bm because she was so fat and so couldnt get a decent wm and that if she lost weight, she would date wm. So much for her 'chocolate love'. If even after hearing such a ridiculous (and racist) comment, bm still choose to chase her behind, well that's their on headache not mine. I couldnt care less either way.

3. You said
"As for non-BM or other men finding her attractive or not, you don't know that."

but in a previous comment, you said
"I don't know her personally, but I believe this young lady already knows what a lot of BW twice her age seem not to get: that BM do not find her attractive, so she will not waste her time with them."

How can you say that we do not know wether or not non-bm would find her attractive but then can say that you know bm will not find her attractive? It is a matter of personal opinion. I am sure that there are men of whatever race who will find her attractive but I am talkin in 'en-masse' terms (i.e as a whole or in general). The same way that you believe that bm in general are not likely to check for her is the same way I believe that non-bm in general are not likely to check for her. The fact of the matter is that we both made assumptions as to what her perceived attractiveness will be based most probably on what we have observed. Why is your assumption any more valid than mine? I do not see non-bm in general running after women of whatever race who look like Gabourey Sidibe. I also do not see bm in general running after women who look like Gabourey Sidibe except if they are non-black.

4. Now assuming obesity was more tolerable among ww than bw ( which it isn't) so? I refuse to engage in 'white pple do it too' kind of mentality. So bcos ther are obese ww walking round, we should pretend that bw should be obese and act like it is not a problem. Several of us are dropping like flies. We are at higher risk of obesity related diseases or diseases that you are more likely to get if you are obese (cancer, diabetes, heart problems, athritis etc) and yet we are supposed to be clapping for her??? Why do I never hear black folks comparing themselves to the positives that other races do? It is only the negatives that we choose to copy or excuse!

Foxycleopatra said...

@ Anna C,

5. You mentioned J Aniston and Kate Hudson. There are several pple of different weight, size, race, economic means etc who divorce. What exactly does that have to do with anything. You just picked 2 women who happen to be slim and happened to be divorced and are using that as some sort of 'proof' that being slim/healthy weight is not everything. I never said that being a healthy weight was everything, i just pointed out a fact as it concerns Gabourey Sidibe.

6. You mentioned Monique. I do not need to wait for Gabi to get to the idiotic level of Monique for me to see that Gabi herself has self esteem issues. You do not need to tolerate a man's infidelity for you to think lowly of yourself. Gabi constantly tolerates disrespect from several male celebrities. Also, she constantly disrespects herself. Just before the BAFTAsa (top British film awards) about 2-3 wks ago, she was having an interview bcos she was nominated for best actress. She began to solicit the male interviewer. She actually was telling this guy that she wanted to sleep with him and talked about hiring a hotel for the night. It was beyond pathetic! The funny thing is the studio ppl were laughing at her idiocy. Why should I consider her rude, unclassy and uncultured behaviour as different to anybody else who exhibits such nonsense? She probably meant it as a joke but it makes no difference. She did another interview with another male interviewer and she was even worse (talking about how 'good' she was in terms of her 'techniques' in the bedroom.....BARF). I just thank God that in her round of interviews, the 3rd one I watched was with a woman and so there was none of that nonsense.

Foxycleopatra said...

7. You talked about her flirting. Well, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this point. Btw, what she does is not flirting. It has of recent come to my attention that several bw do not know how to flirt. I have seen on several of these blogs where bw are asking for advice on how to flirt. What Gabi does is beyond flirting. It is crass and overtly gratuitous! I believe that Gerard Butler was just being polite. He seems like the kind of guy that is nice to all women.

8. You were talking about 'calling everyone out' as opposed to just one person. First and foremost, I am not 'calling any one out'. I am just stating an observation. As for Howard Stern and the likes, well you'll have to take that up with them. As far as I know, they have a radio talk show so if u feel they were singling Gabi out, call them live and question them about it (although personally, i don't think that would be a good idea). As for those insulting her and those whose aim is to bring her down, well shame on them but they should know that what goes around comes around! Secondly, even if I was indeed 'calling her out', so? She came into the conversation. When I decide to talk about Lindsay Lohan or Nicole Richie, we both know that nobody is going to tell me to add Gabourey or Nikki Blosky in the mix.

9. You said:
"And no, it is not the same with the anorexic women. Because I have not heard either one of them make comments on any skinny WW. As a matter of fact, society rarely does."

Ummm, actually, yes it is the same. Anorexic and obese celebrities both have unhealthy relationships with food. They both have serious health issues and they both give a very bad example to pple. As for pple making issue, yes they do. Open magazines today and you will see the disses that anorexic looking celebs get. It sells papers either way. Also, it is un-pc to chide someone for being fat but it isnt un-pc to chide someone for being too skinny!

Foxycleopatra said...

@ Ann C,

Lastly, you said:
"It would seem this goes deeper than just her weight. Even if and when she does lose the weight, what's the guarantee she will get roles and be accepted in Hollywood? If that's the case, why are all of the other BW in Hollywood having a hard time getting parts? The truth is, they will find something else wrong with her (she is too dark, she doesn't have "the look"). So, yes, I do applaud her because she is going to live her life HER way, and as a BW in this sexist, racist world, that is always the best way to go."


Well, irrespective of her career, she should do it for herself. Secondly I believ that these excuses 'well healthy looking bw have a hrd time too/ even so, they will still complain that I'm too dark' kinds of complaints are silly. You will still have more chance to get roles anyway. Thirdly, if more bw supported movies with black actresses and more black actresses began having the guts and common sense to go for non-race specific roles ( a la Kerry Washington, Monique Coleman from High School Musical, Keke Palmer), things will begin to change. Stupid black actresses for years depended on black male directors/producers/actors to give them a shot and they were just used and left behind. They chose not to go for roles opposite non-bm when bm were all the while starring opposite non-bw. Bw veiwers would only support movies with black actors or with black actresses starring with black actors and now that the chicken has come home to roost, we want to complain that we dont get cast among the Matt Damons! So we had to wait until thos black actors showed their true colours and stopped starring alongside black actresses when they got famous for us to realise that we also needed to get out of the 'only star alongside a black male character' nonsense. Please!!!



@ Sara, I too apologise for the several comments, I just had to make sure my points properly came across and my position was not misconstrued.

Thamnks.

Anonymous said...

@Sky,
Although Billy Bush(he is so gay) was joking around, I loved that Gabby was so OPEN and Gerald with along with it. That was nice.

@ Ann C...Your last paragraph was so true.

Gabby's parents did an excellent job instill self-worth in her, Good for you.

Ann

Anonymous said...

@ Cleo...

All I can say is WOW!

Gabby is well aware that she has weight issues; however, I am so happy that she is not allowing her issue to keep her from enjoying life.

lois

JaliliMaster said...

Ann C. said...
“@ Jalilimaster:

It is true that talent is in the eye of the beholder. The problem with the comments that were made by Stern & Quivers is that they are, as the old folks would say, "to break her down." And no, it is not the same with the anorexic women. Because I have not heard either one of them make comments on any skinny WW. As a matter of fact, society rarely does.”

It is the same. If it is oh so wrong and hurtful and offensive.....and whatever else, for some of you to hear someone making fun of another person’s size, then it is just that. Any of you that says otherwise is being a hypocrite. Why should it only be wrong if the person on the receiving end of it is fat? Do you think those anorexic celebrities who are constantly mocked for being anorexic don’t have feelings? Once again, they don’t have my sympathies. They are adults. The only reason an adult would become anorexic is the same reason an adult would become obese.....because they chose to. My opinion on Ms Sidibe’s size was different when I was under the impression that she was of a similar age to the character she played (teenager). When I saw her mother, I put most of the responsibility on that woman, seeing as she is obese herself. However, once I found out that Ms Sidibe is 27 years old, as far as I’m concerned, she is the one causing her immense weight gain. And I am not even going to address the comments you made regarding Howard Stern and that negro female sidekick of his not making such comments about skinny WW. I was never talking about them in particular. All I said in their regard was concerning him questioning her talent, which he is more than within his right to do. I was speaking in a more general term, because if you can be honest with yourself, you can admit that it is A NORMAL THING for all sorts of unkind names to be thrown at super-skinny celebs. I assume that seeing as they enjoy losing weights to obviously unhealthy and potentially deadly levels, then they probably enjoy it when people mention their size. The same applies to people who continue to stuff their face and refuse to exercise, even though it is practically killing them.

JaliliMaster said...

Ann said: “Now, true, she does need to lose some weight, even if it is just for health reasons. Well, the same goes for very thin women. There is nothing attractive in looking like a bone just as there is nothing attractive about walking around with excessive weight on your body. My point in the comment was if you are going to call her out, then you call out EVERYBODY "BIG AND/OR UNTALENTED." Because there are a lot of heavy and/or untalented women in Hollywood. All you have to do is turn on the TV or go to the movies. Why is she being singled out? When that young lady in "Hairspray" Nikki Blosky was all over the news, I didn't hear any nasty comments about her being "big & untalented" and yet, that was her first film as well. Why are these two young ladies treated different by the media? I think that is the bigger question that needs to be answered.”

To answer your last question....well, it is not a ‘bigger’ question. Why? Because it is not true. Gabourey and Nikki Blonsky are not the same size. One of them is morbidly obese, the other is very overweight. That said, anything I say will be coloured by the fact that I think very lowly of that Blonsky creature. Racist white folks that get their disgusting and ungentlemanly fathers to attack young black women and their mothers in airports are not the ‘sort’ I like to think about. Anyway, she is about the same size as Queen Latifah and Monique. They are still acting, so the whole racial thing does not apply in this case, especially as fat Black females are more likely to be allowed to get on t.v and embarrass themselves than fat White females. E.g Gabourey, Monique, (I will not include Latifah on this list as she, atleast, doesn’t tend to act in the coonery type of roles), that obese gril from glee, etc. Now try naming the white actresses who are as fat as these women and still get the opportunity to ‘show their talent’!

And Gabourey, so far, has not been singled out for anything. Until Mr Stern’s comments, then Jamie Foxx, all I heard were the Hollywood types going on about how she is so this and that and.......(insert any other platitude). They have been treating her like a charity case that we are all supposed to feel sorry for. It seems that Ms Sidibe and other BW who are ‘like her’ see all the attention she is getting and assume that it all comes from a positive place. For goodness sake, this grown woman was going on about how Justin Timberlake was flirting with her, sending her saucy texts and all that. She said she didn’t understand why, as she is sure he has a girlfriend (which he does, Jessica Biel). Now do you think Mr Timberlake would have done this with, say, Kerry Washington, Gabby Union etc. No, he would have gotten an earful from his gf. But it’s like, hey, let’s all flirt with that fat girl, it’ll be reeeeaaaallly funny. This is all a joke to them, I am baffled as to why she (and other BW like her) cannot see that she is being made the butt of jokes. It didn’t start with Howard Stern!


And I should just mention, I have not, and will not see ‘Phat girls’. I have seen a picture of the poster and, typical of Monique, she did another disgusting pose. I just mentioned it to give readers an example of her ‘issues’.

JaliliMaster said...

Ann said:
“As for non-BM or other men finding her attractive or not, you don't know that. Neither do I. As I have said before on this blog, it doesn't matter how skinny, big, skin tone, whatever, if you have no personality or it is straight stank, don't NO MAN or anybody for that matter, wants to be bothered with you. Sidibe has the personality. Which brings me to the point of saying that she has a sense of self. I said that because she doesn't follow what the world says. If she did, she would be just like the girl she played in Precious. But even though she is a dark-skinned BW, she doesn't let that hinder her in her quest to become an actress. Good for her!”

‘Sense of self’? Her lack of self-esteem is seeping out from her pores. The only people who can’t see it are those that lack esteem themselves. And how do you know that she isn’t like the character in ‘Precious’? From my understanding, the character being that size was blamed partly on her having issues, being abused, having low-esteem etc, so how do you know that the same does not apply to Ms Sidibe? After all, most overweight BW always want to blame their fatness on “life’s struggles” and other deep-rooted emotional issues. And the same way men (and women), don’t tend to like people lacking a personality, they also don’t like people lacking in self-esteem. Why? Because that lack of esteem tends to create a negative attitude. You see it exhibited in different ways. For most WW, they tend to display that lack of esteem in a passive-aggressive manner, in a bid to hide how little it is they really think of themselves. On the other hand, most BW who lack self-esteem tend to display it in an aggressive manner. That thing that a lot of you get accused of having..you know....an ‘attitude’, well, that’s what it is. It is in a bid to “hate the world/everyone else, before the world/everyone else can hate me”.

JaliliMaster said...

Ann C. said...
“@ Foxycleopatra

My point about Sidibe flirting with Butler, talking about Timberlake, etc. is just simply she is open to relationships with non-BM. I would much rather hear her talk about them then saying she want to get with Flava Flav or Lil Wayne. You said that if it were Washington or Union, would he have reacted the same way? Probably. Butler is known to flirt with women all the time. That's what he does. And it was just that with Sidibe: flirting. What, she can't flirt because she's heavy and a BW?”


I’m trying to understand why you still insist on the ‘BW’ thing, especially as the examples that were given were also of other BW. I have noticed that many fat BW do this. Rather than accept/admit that something happened to them because of their weight, they try to turn it into solely a racial issue. No one buys it!



“Now, as for non-BM running behind her, again, we don't know this. Yes, she needs to lose the weight. But that is not the only thing that makes up a person. If that is the case, then why do all of the Jennifer Aniston, Kate Hudson, etc. have a hard time keeping a man? Because it takes more than that. Look at all of the WM that are leaving these WW. I mean, they are thin, are considered what the world calls beautiful, yet, these men are dropping their behinds left and right. As I said a few sentences ago, no man wants a woman, I don't care what she looks like, who is complaining, moaning, conceited, self-centered and thinks the world revolves around her. What I like about Sidibe is that she needs to lose the weight, but she is not obsessed about it. For example, Oprah, that's all she talks about is her looks. It takes more than looks to get and keep a man just like it takes more than looks to get and keep a woman. If what is underneath them looks is stanky, then soon enough them looks and that skinny, thin body will not make a bit of difference.”


If it is so easy to assume that there are not hoardes of eligible men who are considered a ‘catch’ by throngs of women running after morbidly obese WW, then why should it be hard to grasp the same thing when it comes to a morbidly obese BW? And concerning those White actresses you mentioned, from what you wrote, I don’t know if you are trying to imply that they are conceited, like moaning, and think the world revolves around them. I haven’t got a clue why they are single. Afterall, a very large proportion of AA women are single. Am I allowed to assume that this is because they are (in your own words)... “complaining, moaning, conceited, self-centered and thinks the world revolves around her.” Or are we only allowed to make such assumptions about why individual WW are single? And frankly, if you are not in a long term, successful relationship with a loving man, you are in no position to give advice! I don't get why it is so difficult for some to just tell the truth, that Gabourey's whole persona is doing her no favours whatsoever!

JaliliMaster said...

“Thank You!!!! And let's not forget comedienne Lisa Lapanelli who wrote a book called' "Chocolate Please" where she explicitly talks about how she like "chocolate d" and her love of BM. I saw here on a comedy show sitting next to a BM comedian and she told him how she loves what's between his legs. Now, here is a heavy, big WW talking raunchy about a BM's private parts and yet I didn't hear a peep out of BW, BM, BP, BC, etc. As a matter of fact, the BM comedian laughed.

Here's the thing: if you are going call one woman out on what she says, call them all out. Just like you said about Alley and Foxx, it is okay for a big WW to talk about sexing a BM, it's teasing and flirting. But when a big BW does it, it's wrong.”


I have no concern with BM and WW, whether said WW is fat or not. I am a BW, so please tell me where I come into the equation concerning what goes on between BM and WW. It may be hard for you to believe, but there are some of us BW out there who couldn’t give a rat’s behind about who BM are sleeping with. That said, if any Black male has such little respect for himself that he would be engaging in such conversations about his private parts in public, then, once again, that is BM’s business! And on both of these WW you mentioned, I have heard them both on several occasions explicitly state that the reason they date BM is because with them being fat, no one else wants them! So please don’t start on the whole “why is it okay for a WW to be obese but not a BW”.

JaliliMaster said...

“It would seem this goes deeper than just her weight. Even if and when she does lose the weight, what's the guarantee she will get roles and be accepted in Hollywood? If that's the case, why are all of the other BW in Hollywood having a hard time getting parts? The truth is, they will find something else wrong with her (she is too dark, she doesn't have "the look"). So, yes, I do applaud her because she is going to live her life HER way, and as a BW in this sexist, racist world, that is always the best way to go.”



It is well known amongst the Hollywood types that there tend to be more roles for fat BW than slender BW in Hollywood. Hollywood only ever allows there to be one ‘Black’ actress at a time. Over the past decade, that was Halle Berry. Unfortunately, all of the Black actresses coming up today are, you know, actual Black people, and Hollywood can’t have Black women being sexy leading ladies unless they are half-other non-Black. Otherwise, there is always the overweight, loud, neck-rolling, finger-snapping, wise-cracking side kick or best friend to the angelic white female character that Hollywood throws out. Such roles will never go to the Kerry Washingtons or Gabriel Unions as they don’t want they white actress upstaged. There is a reason white women seem to have a penchant for just lurving films about fat BW with issues. They don’t like seeing BW portrayed in a way that hurts their ego. You people that keep on buying into it are just deceiving yourselves!

There will be roles for Ms Sidibe in Hollywood. She is already typecast as the disturbed, emotionally unstable, obese black girl. Whenever there is a role like that, she will probably get a phone call.

Huda said...

Well written piece. Few weeks ago I went to Cope Out movie with Bruce Willis and Tracy Morgan, and its been one of my least favorite experience. I did not find Morgan funny, nor do I consider him a funny comedian in general. Sometimes, we in the black community, esp. black men reinforce all the nasty stereotypes by profiting from it, not realizing the negative impact it has on the community and the whole mainstream society.

the current generation, including those born after the 1960s think every degrading and taboo topics is comedic and worth demeaning. Its one thing to do comedic satire, after all its party of art to examine and poke fun @ human stupidly & crimes. However issues are rarely done well by few comedians that its best to leave it be.

Selena said...

Not only is Lisa Lapanelli a big ww, she looks like a man. On top of her joking about loving bm, she belittles them at the same time especially the jokes about bm having low standards and dating other big ww...

Glad to see you back Sara!

Anonymous said...

the CDC report issued a few days ago that said 48% of Black women have herpes?
---
What a load of malarkey. The sad thing is a lot of people (icluding some BW) are going to buy into this lastest smear campaign and make sure the "news" passed around so that no one misses out on it -- sort of like the bogus "newsflash" of a few years back that made it seem like a huge percentage of BW are infected with HIV.

Foxycleopatra said...

Jalilimaster said:
"For goodness sake, this grown woman was going on about how Justin Timberlake was flirting with her, sending her saucy texts and all that. She said she didn’t understand why, as she is sure he has a girlfriend (which he does, Jessica Biel). Now do you think Mr Timberlake would have done this with, say, Kerry Washington, Gabby Union etc. No, he would have gotten an earful from his gf. But it’s like, hey, let’s all flirt with that fat girl, it’ll be reeeeaaaallly funny. This is all a joke to them, I am baffled as to why she (and other BW like her) cannot see that she is being made the butt of jokes. It didn’t start with Howard Stern!"


I co-sign 100%. I dont understand how some bw want to deceive themselves that she is getting all this out of them 'loving' her. The joke is on her but unfortunately, she and several other similar bw, cannot...sorry, refuse to see it!

----------------------------
Jalili said:
"For most WW, they tend to display that lack of esteem in a passive-aggressive manner, in a bid to hide how little it is they really think of themselves. On the other hand, most BW who lack self-esteem tend to display it in an aggressive manner. That thing that a lot of you get accused of having..you know....an ‘attitude’, well, that’s what it is. It is in a bid to “hate the world/everyone else, before the world/everyone else can hate me”."


I couldn't have said it better. What irks me the most are bw who can easily point out when ww are being passive-agressive but then are completely unaware when they themselves are behaving in ways that fit that agressive stereotype.

Look at how defensive some ppl are getting on this board. Ppl in general do not like self-introspection because that involves taking personal responsibility. The weight issue seems to be a very touchy subject among bw. I think it is bcos:

1. A significant number fall under this category.
2. This is something that is hard to blame on anyone else. Who is forcing you to eat more than you should? Who is stopping you from exercising? Who is stopping you from living a healthy lifestyle? etc

------------------------------
Jalili said:
"I’m trying to understand why you still insist on the ‘BW’ thing, especially as the examples that were given were also of other BW. I have noticed that many fat BW do this. Rather than accept/admit that something happened to them because of their weight, they try to turn it into solely a racial issue. No one buys it!"


I've noticed this crap too. You will hear someone of Gabi's appearance complain that bm dont date her bcos she is dark skinned or non-bm dont date her bcos she is black. I'm like get the ---- outta here! There is indeed severe colorism in black constructs but I've seen too many women use that as an excuse for things that they very much can control!

------------------------------
Jalili said:
"There is a reason white women seem to have a penchant for just lurving films about fat BW with issues. They don’t like seeing BW portrayed in a way that hurts their ego. You people that keep on buying into it are just deceiving yourselves!"


Something that several bw dont know is that a significant proportion of casting directors in h-wood are ww. When they cast an angelina jolie, salma hayek and lucy liu and then cast a monique along side them, is it that bw cant see what the aim of that is???
Most times when they cast a bw who is well put 2gether, she is usually as white or non-blk as possible (ie biracial). Yet when they want to put the stereotypical image i.e fat, loud, agressive, multiple babbydaddys, attitude, that is when they will happily cast a black woman. It seems that some bw want to bury their heads in the sand. I.WILL.NOT!!!

Queen said...

@FoxyCleopatra wow you have a whole alot to say about where people are failing, but are you reccomedning alternatives? I agree with you that black folks have a tendency to support things like "Soul Plane" and other movie embarassments. But I also see that there is not alot of support for positive movies and shows. There was a great tv show on CBS a few years ago called "City of Angels" about black doctors at an inner city hospital, but it was pulled becasue of low ratings (or so they say)Medical doctors, not shucking and jiving buffoons. You cannot totally blame the black community, the powers that be also help keep the buffoonery alive. Spike Lee said in an interview a while back that if he wanted to do a buffunery movie, he can get millions from studios fo the project, but if he pitches an idea showing blacks in a positive light, he can't get a dime. Bill Cosby helped him complete Malcom X one of his best pieces of work and a great biopic on the slain leader becasue the studios would not support the project. It is not always the black dollar that is bankrolling these embarassing movies, but the money of the wealthy elite behind the scenes who many times would rather give Halle Berry and oscar for being a ghetto mother (typical Jezebel whore sterotype) than for being in a positive role. Denzel Washington,Oscar nominated for stellar performances in Malcom X and The Huricane did not win until he played a dirty cop (Stereotypical criminal black man)and these people are willing to spend millions more to help us keep those negative images of black people alive and well. We are not helping by suppoting this madness, but we are not doing it alone, we are getting alot of help behind the scenes.

JaliliMaster said...

Selena said...
"Not only is Lisa Lapanelli a big ww, she looks like a man. On top of her joking about loving bm, she belittles them at the same time especially the jokes about bm having low standards and dating other big ww..."#




That is why I am not prepared to give any credence to Ann's claims that it is only overweight BW that people have issue's with. If anything, it is mainly obese BW that people pretend are not headed for a serious health disaster. It is physically impossible to be obese, not to mention, morbidly obese, and still claim to be 'healthy'. If you are obese, you are living a very unhealthy lifestyle. The average person's strong disinclination to 'mate' with obese people, male or female, has as much to do with genetics and health as it does to do with physical attraction. Obesity is a disease. There is no point skirting around the issue just because it might hurt peoples feelings. I have no interest in dating obese men. If he cannot do something as simple as take care of himself, how is he going to take care of a family. Similarly, I'm not going to punish my future children by making them come into this world with the genes of a man who is obese. Have you lot no idea the sort of diseases you are at risk of???!!!


Whenever I hear Lisa Lampanelli's name come up, it was always about her being mocked. I have never, and I mean never heard anything remotely positive said about Lisa Lampanelli or her weight. She even know's that most men (in this case, WM) refuse to date her because of her size. So stop pretending that it is only fat BW that struggle to get decent dates. Moreover, if you think your obesity is such qa non-issue, how about you do the non-hypocritical thing and date the men like you. Stop salivating over the Gerard Butlers, George Clooneys, Matt Damons, Denzel Washingtons, Barack Obamas etc,and start salivating over the men who are the male representatives of you! You know, the George from Seinfeld types, Notorious B.I.Gs etc. Any of you that think there are hordes of well educated, sucessful, attractive men salivating and lusting after the likes of Gabourey Sidibe are beyond clueless. Non of you seem to salivate over obese men. WHy is it then so hard for you to accept that most men just aren't that attracted to unhealthy, obese women?!

All men want the mother of their children to be healthy, so that their kids have the best chance of being healthy. It is the same reason why men, on average, don't like dating bony women. These are unhealthy people.

Ann C. said...

First Sara, I am going to apologize right off the bat because I said I was going to let this go, but I need to say something to this young girl.....

@ Jalilimaster:
"It is the same. If it is oh so wrong and hurtful and offensive.....and whatever else, for some of you to hear someone making fun of another person’s size, then it is just that. Any of you that says otherwise is being a hypocrite. Why should it only be wrong if the person on the receiving end of it is fat?"

I pray to God you are not a parent and definitely not one with a daughter. I cringe to think that you would think it is okay to make fun of someone because of their size. And if you find this behavior okay, then that right off the bat tells me you are young and immature. So I won't waste too much time trying to explain something that older parents, like myself, already know. When you get 50, kid, and have children in their 20's, come talk to me.

We could go back and forth on this forever. But the bottom line is this, Howard Stern should have kept his mouth close. He had absolutely NO RIGHT to say something so hurtful to this girl whether it is true or not. And as far as it is a "disservice" to her not to let her know she is overweight or however you put it, it is not a service to her to talk about her being big or say she looks like Biggie Smalls. THAT'S HELPING HER? KID, HOW OLD ARE YOU? WHEN IS NAME CALLING EVER HELPFUL TO SOMEONE???? What, now she is going to jump on a diet just because Howard Stern called her enormous? And quite frankly, what business is it of ANYBODY if and when she loses the weight? How do any of us know she is starting a diet right now? What goes on in her life is HER business, when she decides to lose the weight is HER business, not nobody else's.

I didn't really read all of what you said because frankly, I could tell you are young and sweetheart, to be honest, I don't have time for a young girl who thinks she knows everything. You go on and on about psychological and human behavior, etc. Do you have a daughter in her 20's? I didn't think so. Because if you did, you would know that whether it is truth or not, no mother wants a stranger making comments about her child. And any parent who thinks it is okay, them something is really wrong with you. And just for the record,my dear, I am not overweight, neither is my daughter (in her 20's). As a matter of fact, I am near 50-years of age I look a lot better and feel healthier than I did when I was your young age.

People need to grow up, period. Name calling and nasty remarks about someone, whether they are true or not, does not encourage anyone. They teach kids this in school. People that are suppose to be adults can't understand that?

Yes, obesity is a problem. It is not healthy to carry alot of excess weight on your body. AA are prone to high blood pressure, diabetes, heart problems, etc. because of excess weight. In particular, BW. Having said that, I am sure that Sidibe knows she is overweight. It doesn't take studying human behavior, psychological study, etc. to see that. Ray Charles can see that and he's blind and dead. That still does not give anyone the right, even if we can say what we want about people, to make comments about someone under the guise of, "well, I can say what I want" or "well, I talk about everyone else." How about saying something to Sidibe that will help and encourage her to be healthy? I believe that this is what this blog is about: encouraging and supporting other BW. Not saying it's okay to make snide remarks about someone whether there is truth in them or not. And if you believe that, then why are you here on this blog?

Anonymous said...

"The weight issue seems to be a very touchy subject among bw."

Weight is a touchy subject for any woman because of the way overweight people are treated. And I also think statements like these don't help when trying to talk about the issue: "But it’s like, hey, let’s all flirt with that fat girl, it’ll be reeeeaaaallly funny. This is all a joke to them, I am baffled as to why she (and other BW like her) cannot see that she is being made the butt of jokes."

"I have noticed that many fat BW do this. Rather than accept/admit that something happened to them because of their weight, they try to turn it into solely a racial issue. No one buys it!"

"‘Sense of self’? Her lack of self-esteem is seeping out from her pores. The only people who can’t see it are those that lack esteem themselves."

Of course people are going to react negatively to statements that insult them or someone they know that's overweight. I don't care how honest you're being, if people feel you're putting them down they will become defensive, regardless of how they feel on the subject. I see no point in even having a discussion on bw's weight anymore. We'd have to be stupid to think anyone in American society has escaped learning that fat is bad and dangerous. Even the kids know it and fret about being overweight. These weight discussions take place all over the internet and they always go down the same path, fat bw are ugly, no man will want them, they're embarrassing themselves and thin, beautiful bw by being on TV, they'll be dead soon, they're desperate for any man, they're delusional/crazy/full of sh*t if they think they actually look good, etc. Is it really necessary to keep rehashing this stuff? We get it, you (and I mean you in general, not specific) don't like fat bw or fat people in general, and you don't like the thought of them believing they're good enough to pursue thin people. The thought of Gabby or any fat women thinking they're good enough for a Gerard or JT seems to really upset some thin people. I don't know why. The likely hood of such a thing happening is slim, and yet it just seems to burn some people up.

And just because a blog had overweight bw on it who wanted to date 'fit' wm doesn't mean every big bw feels that way. Most Americans are overweight and most overweight people marry other overweight people. Does anyone think fat wm, bm, etc. stop drooling over Halle Berry or Megan Fox because they can't get them? No, 'cause it's a fantasy. None of us are going to get these celebs unless we move to Hollywood and become famous/work in movies.

The derision that fat celebs like Gabby, Kristie, or Rosanne are treated with is far different from the way thin celebs like Nicole Ritchie, Calista Flockheart, or fashion models are treated. People were actually concerned and sometimes fascinated by the latter, while they mocked the former. Too thin celebs rarely gain weight, but the so called overweight ones quickly lose it when they're deemed as fat by gossip mags. and the general public. Society is much more accepting and even celebratory of being too thin. Being too fat is unacceptable.

Ann C. said...

@ Foxycleopatra:

Okay, now, I didn't know about this child's behavior in coming on to male interviewers. If that is the case, then yes, she needs to stop that. My mistake.

As far as BW having more lee-way on weight allowance than WW, I don't agree with that. By whom? We are going to agree to disagree on this issue. Heavy WW are not considered ugly and fat at the same rate as BW. If that's the case, BW wouldn't be on this blog talking about how BM will marry a fat, overweight WW after knocking Gabrielle Union over to get to her. I could care less about that. That is not my concern because if it was, I wouldn't be on this blog. But that is a statement of fact.

As for me calling Howard Stern and talking with him, sweetheart, I have better things to do with my time. I have responsiblities. This is what the bottom line of what I said before. Just because he can say what he wants, he had no right to make snide comments about this child. Okay, she needs to lose weight. Is what he said going to help her?? If anything, why didn't he say he knows a weight loss program that will help her. Wouldn't that serve her better than saying she's enormous and whatever other mess he said and everyone else for that matter?

I am the mother of a 20-something year old child. I would think that her mother would encourage her to be healthy. But if she isn't, then someone around this child needs to step up to the plate and help her. And yes, she needs to help herself to be healthier. However, telling her she looks like Biggie Smalls, calling her enormous, and other remarks are not the way to go.

Anonymous said...

“ ...my problem is, I can't get a good-looking white guy anymore, I just don't have the looks to get that. I can get hot blacks, but also blacks are now starting to get uppity and go for the skinny white ones and the Asians, which is very offensive to me that they don't stick with their roots — the chubby white girl!
Lisa Lapanelli's quote.

lol, bm should be insulted,
"Uppity" and "bm are not sticking to their roots...chubby wg?" Now, that is laugh out loud funny.

a.

Bellydancer said...

Let's try to stay on track people. Those comedians named have been making black women the brunt of jokes for years if not talking about our weight it has been about our attitudes, weaves, bad ass kids, yo mama jokes, cooking skills or lack thereof, not performing oral sex and every other little thing that they need to sit down and address with their woman but instead choose to publicize it. Let's not have 50 post about Gabby and her problems we know she big when she know she big then she will fix her problems until then that is her issue and I have seen bigger chicks then her with a man and kids white and black so let's not get it twisted.
The real issue is how much can a joke go on if everyone starts to believe that maybe it is not a joke then it becomes sterotyping which I believe is the black man's way of having everyone focus on bw instead of bm. Some things they say and what they mean.
1. Black women are obese so why should we marry them, not pretty or attractive. [Stressing over his bs can cause some weight gain see #3]
2. Black women have too many kids by other men. [Even if the bm has a few baby mommas himself.]
3. Black women have attitudes, mean and disagreeable.[ While you keep cheating on her, driving the gas out her car and can't pick up a bill every now and then.]
4.Black women are too picky, need to date down, too educated {So bm do not have to do much and be overshadowed}
The list can go on and on.
The point is is these men have had a bad experience and want sympathy from everybody.

Pam Grier's love child said...

Ann C. -

The premise that you advance in your last comment is that, basically, that since you are older, have more experience, and, have a child, your opinion on this subject (Sidibe) is worth more.

I emphatically disagree.

As far as I'm concerned, Jalilimaster and foxycleopatra are spot-on in their comments. I have no idea how old they are, and I don't care - they are correct, imo.

And whatever their respective ages, they express themselves clearly and succinctly, and I value their point of view as much as I value yours.

Even though I respectfully disagree with yours in this instance.

All that said, I don't like to see anyone mocked in public for their failures or shortcomings - I hope Ms. Sidibe is able to address her issue of morbid obesity as soon as possible and work towards a healthy weight.

JaliliMaster said...

Ann C. said...
“First Sara, I am going to apologize right off the bat because I said I was going to let this go, but I need to say something to this young girl.....”



I know you were just trying to insult me with that quip, however, I am pretty sure I never mentioned my age. Why you choose to refer to me as ‘this young girl’, only you can answer. If you want to get personal, by all means go ahead, I won’t engage with you on that nonsense. My comments were never about you, so if you have such a complex about your weight, that is your issue, not mine.
________________________



“I pray to God you are not a parent and definitely not one with a daughter. I cringe to think that you would think it is okay to make fun of someone because of their size. And if you find this behavior okay, then that right off the bat tells me you are young and immature. So I won't waste too much time trying to explain something that older parents, like myself, already know. When you get 50, kid, and have children in their 20's, come talk to me.”




Lol, you just called me “kid”. You are using straw man arguments, which tells me that you know that you’re talking a load of tosh! Please show me where in my comments ever said......“................you would think it is okay to make fun of someone because of their size.” When did I ever say that? Your real issue with me is that I refuse to coddle grown women who are destroying their bodies. The fact that you are used to people making all sorts of excuses for your weight (I think it is safe for me to assume that you are obese, which would explain your very negative reaction to my comments), doesn’t mean that you should expect everyone to continue making those excuses. If you actually bothered to read my comments, opposed to fuming, you’d realise that I said that if it is wrong to mock fat people, then it should also be wrong to mock those who are just skin & bones. The fact that I have no sympathy for the obese or adult anorexics does not mean I condone mocking them. I don’t. They have a disease. The same way I wouldn’t mock anyone with HIV or any other disease is the same way I wouldn’t mock them. However, they do not have my sympathies. And on your last comment, I can guarantee you, 100%, that I will not now, or ever, “come talk to you”! You are rude. I’m not going to excuse your rudeness just because you are 50 years old. The fact is, had you not mentioned your age, or had you been some 20-25 year old woman, I’d probably have been a tad bit more blunt in my reply, or I would have ignored you all together. But seriously, you are pushing it!!!

JaliliMaster said...

“That still does not give anyone the right, even if we can say what we want about people, to make comments about someone under the guise of, "well, I can say what I want" or "well, I talk about everyone else." How about saying something to Sidibe that will help and encourage her to be healthy?”



Refer to my comments above concerning this word...”rights” that you enjoy using. As I said, my main issue with her is how she carries herself. She does so very poorly. I don’t care if any of you have an issue with my opinions. As you said, Gabourey knows she is morbidly obese. So why should it be any other adults responsibility to ‘encourage her to lose weight’. That is her own business. She is the one that has to live in that body. I’ll be lying if I said I was too concerned about her in that regard. I was when I thought she was a teenager. I saw her mother and assumed it was something that had been done to her growing up. However, since I discovered that she is approaching 30 years old, I don’t give a rat’s left foot. She is an adult. It is now her own responsibility, not someone elses!


___________________

“I believe that this is what this blog is about: encouraging and supporting other BW. Not saying it's okay to make snide remarks about someone whether there is truth in them or not. And if you believe that, then why are you here on this blog?”



It is none of your business what I am doing on this blog. I have been visiting pretty much form the first post Sara put up on the previous blog. Part of that ‘encouraging and supporting other BW’ includes calling them out for their silly behaviour. I think Monique is approaching being a lost cause. Hence, the reason, I said little about what she does. She is almost 50 (48 years old). Gabby, on the other hand, does not seem to realise how poorly she is presenting herself. Hence, the reason I mentioned it. In terms of her weight, neither I nor anyone else will say anything that she hasn’t already heard, so that, as far as I’m concerned, is a losing battle. When she is ready to improve her life, she will. However, it seems that few, if anyone, have told her how unbecoming her behaviour is. And seeing from a lot of the comments here, it seems that a good proportion of the AA women posting are also completely unaware of how poorly she is portraying herself by the nonsense she says. Half the time this woman opens her mouth, it is about some or the other type of sexual innuendo!

JaliliMaster said...

“We could go back and forth on this forever. But the bottom line is this, Howard Stern should have kept his mouth close. He had absolutely NO RIGHT to say something so hurtful to this girl whether it is true or not. And as far as it is a "disservice" to her not to let her know she is overweight or however you put it, it is not a service to her to talk about her being big or say she looks like Biggie Smalls. THAT'S HELPING HER? KID, HOW OLD ARE YOU? WHEN IS NAME CALLING EVER HELPFUL TO SOMEONE???? What, now she is going to jump on a diet just because Howard Stern called her enormous? And quite frankly, what business is it of ANYBODY if and when she loses the weight? How do any of us know she is starting a diet right now? What goes on in her life is HER business, when she decides to lose the weight is HER business, not nobody else's.”




Once again, point to me where I said it was a “disservice” to not tell Ms Sidibe how fat she is! Point it to me! And for someone so keen on being nice and not calling people names, you seem all too keen to insult me and my age, whatever age it is that you pulled out of the air. And you are wrong to say that Howard Stern has no ‘right’ to say something that could potentially hurt someone’s feelings. He, like the rest of us, have the right to say whatever we want, as long as it is not slander. The fact we have the ‘right’ to say something, does not mean it should be said. But the right to free speech still exists!
__________________________


“I didn't really read all of what you said because frankly, I could tell you are young and sweetheart, to be honest, I don't have time for a young girl who thinks she knows everything. You go on and on about psychological and human behavior, etc. Do you have a daughter in her 20's? I didn't think so. Because if you did, you would know that whether it is truth or not, no mother wants a stranger making comments about her child. And any parent who thinks it is okay, them something is really wrong with you. And just for the record,my dear, I am not overweight, neither is my daughter (in her 20's). As a matter of fact, I am near 50-years of age I look a lot better and feel healthier than I did when I was your young age.”



Well why are you replying to ‘what I said’ if you didn’t read it. Obviously, you don’t like my opinions. I suggest that you just skip over my comments whenever you see my username. Those negroes posting their nonsense a bit higher up don’t interest me, hence, I scanned through their comments without wasting much time. You should do the same when you see my username.

_______________________

“People need to grow up, period. Name calling and nasty remarks about someone, whether they are true or not, does not encourage anyone. They teach kids this in school. People that are suppose to be adults can't understand that?”



Oh, I’m supposed to be an adult now? Or is it Howard Stern that is supposed to be the adult, because I can’t tell from your words.
“Yes, obesity is a problem. It is not healthy to carry alot of excess weight on your body. AA are prone to high blood pressure, diabetes, heart problems, etc. because of excess weight. In particular, BW. Having said that, I am sure that Sidibe knows she is overweight. It doesn't take studying human behavior, psychological study, etc. to see that. Ray Charles can see that and he's blind and dead.”



Ray Charles can see what? That she is obese? I’m amused at how this conversation turned into one about her weight, when my original comments were more about her VERY embarrassing behaviour. Those of you with issues assumed that that meant that she shouldn’t flirt ‘cuz she is fat. Well I don’t see any of the other actresses saying who they were going to have sex with on the red carpet, and talking about how their outfit is like porn. But no, let’s only talk about her weight.

ValeriesWorld said...

I wish Gabby every success, she is a very pretty girl, and I hope that she has the right influences.

I have noticed a very disturbing trend to constantly insulting bw from bm and now others are joining the bandwagon, there is a man called Ebver, who has a blog and he talked about the dishonour of bw and he said that people who do this, should be cut off, that means, don't buy their records, visit their shows or whatever. Don't buy from them in your lifetime. We have the power to do this.

Foxycleopatra said...

@ Ann C,

Although your comment (dated:March 15, 2010 10:21 AM) was addressed mostly to Jalili, I will say a few things.

1. You are arguing over a point that was never made. No where did anyone say that it was ok to degrade or mock someone because of their size. Neither Jalili, myself or anyone else's comment on this post took that stance. So why are you arguing it? I've been on blogs for long enough to recognise such tactics. You could not adequately refute the points that were made s instead, decided to create positions, assign them to someone (in this case Jalilimaster) even though the said someone never took those positions.

2. I do not know what Jalilimaster 'meant' to say but atleast I can see for myself what she did indeed say and I think you are intentionally missing/ignoring her point. What i understood was that she views someone being chided for being anorexic as THE EXACT SAME as someone being chided for being obese and that the same way she does not have much sympathy for the anorexic ppl IS THE SAME WAY she doesnt have much sympathy for obese ppl as they are BOTH self-inflicted. You do not seem to have issue with her not having sympathy with anorexics but only have issue with her not having sympathy with obese pple. She is just pointing out the hypocrisy of that.

3. What is this 'young girl', 'how old are you?' nonsense? First and foremost, how do you know what anybodys age is here? Secondly even if you do, so what? So if someone is younger than you, their points or opinions become invalid? You dont seem to have an issue with the 'young girls' who do not have a differing opinion from you but only with those that do. For your information, the only thoughts you can control are yours. You say it like being called 'young' is supposed to be some sort of insult!! Ummm....nope!

4. You said what business is anyone's about her weight. I actually agree with you on that issue. But do you believe that skinny/slim celebrities weight is also nobody else's business? Also, everybody is entitled to have an opinion on anything they want to have an opinion on. It's a right. It doesnt mean one can force the opinion on anyone else, but one is still entitled to have that opinion.

5. You said this blog is about encouraging and supporting bw. Yes. I will encourage and support bw but that also involves me not lying to them. I support happy, fulfilling and abundant lives for all black women. That though doesn't involve supporting bw with damaging and dangerous mentalities, irresepective of what those mentalities are.

Lastly Ann C, I have got nothing against you. This is a conversation that seems to have become something else. The fact that we might disagree with each other doesnt mean that we cannot have a proper conversation. At worst, we can just agree to disagree. If there is something that I can learn from you, then I will, irrespective of the fact that we might disagree on a number of other issues.

With that said, I wish you all the best. Peace.

JaliliMaster said...

ValeriesWorld said...
"I have noticed a very disturbing trend to constantly insulting bw from bm and now others are joining the bandwagon, there is a man called Ebver, who has a blog and he talked about the dishonour of bw and he said that people who do this, should be cut off, that means, don't buy their records, visit their shows or whatever. Don't buy from them in your lifetime. We have the power to do this."






I'll believe AA women are serious about that when they start with that negro creature called Tyler Perry. He has made millions of negative and demenaing caricatures of BW, and yet, middle-aged BW are his biggest fans!
__________________________

Pam Grier's love child:


Sheeesh, atleast SOMEONE gets it! To Miss Ann, take a note from this poster, how to disagree without resorting to snide remarks and catty comments!

Foxycleopatra said...

@ Anonymous March 15, 2010 10:36 AM,

I never said those bigger bw should only date bigger wm. My point is that those women were more than willing to express their right to find ONLY physically fit wm attractive but were turning around and complaining that those fit wm ONLY seem to find phisically fit women attractive as well. That is hypocritical in its entirety. They were rejecting men based SOLELY on how 'unfit'/big/overweight the men were, yet complaining when men were rejecting them based SOLELY on how 'unfit'/big/overweight they were. That is hypocritical in its entirety. They then began to pass those men off as 'racist' saying that it is because they were black that those fit wm were rejecting them (even though the 'fit' wm in question were dating other non-overweight bw).

To explain this better, imagine when bm say that they want their bw partner to be highly eductaed, yet the bm barely has a high school dimploma. Or when you hear bm say that the woman should not have any kids, yet he has several babymommas around the place. This same thing that those women were seeing as desirable in men (healthy/physically fit), they were complainig when it was also seen as desirable in women. That is hypocritical in its entirety.

To bw who are looking for 'Mr. Right', pls make sure that you yourself is 'Ms. Right'. The same demands or expectations you will make of your partner, you yourself should also meet those expectations.



Lastly, you said:
"And just because a blog had overweight bw on it who wanted to date 'fit' wm doesn't mean every big bw feels that way."

I never said that every big bw feels that way. So why are you refuting a statement that I never made?

Foxycleopatra said...

@ Queen,

Haha. I apologise if I come across as a know-it-all. By no means do I know everything and by no means am I perfect. In my quest for perfection (to what ever extent it can be achieved here on earth), I will take responsibility for all my actions/ decisions, learn from my mistakes, learn from other peoples mistakes and hopefully, constantly improve and become a better person on my way to a happier, more abundant and fulfilling life.


I completely agree with you concerning Denzel Washington. He is one of the finest actors of his generation (and looks better than most men his age lol!). He has been in several oscar worthy roles: Malcolm X, Cry Freedom, The Debaters, The Hurricane and yet the one he gets an award for is Training Day! As for Halle Berry, well, although I love her as an actress and a sista, I have to keep it real. I know the reason (atleast I believe i do) why she won the oscar for 'that' role. We know it was 'that' scene and not the role itself that the oscar was given to her for. On the other hand, I will not begrudge her bcos i know a lot of people( who I will not mention) seem to have more of an issue with the fact that the other person in that sex scene with Halle was a white male. They now talk about how she 'degraded' herself. If the guy was black, they wouldnt care less. Yet these same pple would happily watch and support 'entertainment' that shows a black woman in g-strings with a credit card being slid through her buttocks! They will happily support a musician who puts leashes on scantily clad black women and have them crawl on the floor like they are sub-human beings and show such images to the world! They dont seem to find that one degrading.

As for Spike Lee, he is a hypocrite but I will not go into that right now (bcos they are about to start glee in 10 mins and I have other stuff to write lol).

It is easy for ppl to complain about lack of backing from white-owned studios for positive black stuff. Well take a look at Tyler Perry. He owns his studio. Yet what does he use it to do? What exactly is stopping all the black hollywood bigwigs from coming together (since they claim it is so important to them) and forming a small studio to do these sort of stuff? Start independent and then go from there?

Lastly, the biggest problem in all of this is that:

BLACK PPLE AS A WHOLE WILL NOT SUPPORT IT!!!!

They would rather support degenerate nonsense that degrades them!!! I would like to know how many watched the The Debaters? Now i would like to know how many repeatedly watch any of Tyler Perry's dustbin nonsense? See my point?

We can hold white people responsible for what happened in our past, but cannot hold them responsible for what we refuse to do to protect our future!

Foxycleopatra said...

Valeries world said:
"I have noticed a very disturbing trend to constantly insulting bw from bm and now others are joining the bandwagon, there is a man called Ebver, who has a blog and he talked about the dishonour of bw and he said that people who do this, should be cut off, that means, don't buy their records, visit their shows or whatever. Don't buy from them in your lifetime. We have the power to do this."


I agree. Do not support those who do not support you.

RECIPROCITY!!!!

Unfortunately though, I generally dont buy into 'boycott calls' when they come from bw. Bw seem to only boycott stuff that we dont actually use. For example, bw 'boycotted' young berg but lets be honest, how many ppl knew who the heck the guy was? Most of the women who boycotted him never bought his music before, so how can that actually be a boycott? Yet Ne-yo and Kanye west still have their music supported by bw. Those ones would be real boycotts bcos bw actually buy their records. Another example is p diddy. Bw were happy to complain and 'boycott' Ciroc vodka after their racist ad that called for white, latino and light skin black models only. A lot of these women had never even heard of Ciroc Vodka before. Had it been one of the drinks that blk ppl commonly drink, I doubt a boycott would have occurred. Also, bw are the majority female consumers of p diddys perfume line. Funny, that they couldn't boycott those of his endorsements that they actually use.

Peadophiles like R kelly still get support from bw!

Until I see bw seriously boycott something that they ACTUALLY USE (and therefore will be deprived of it in the advent of a boycott), I will not take boycott calls from bw very seriously!

Ann C. said...

@ Jalilimaster:

"If after viewing that nonsense, you still think Monique is a respectable woman with a good opinion of herself, then you are probably just like her."

"I think it is safe for me to assume that you are obese, which would explain your very negative reaction to my comments"


"And frankly, if you are not in a long term, successful relationship with a loving man, you are in no position to give advice!"

These are all personal comments you have made towards me. Now, I know you believe in the free speech bs and people can say what they want. Well, dear, that goes both ways. You don't know me either. Yet, you have sat up here and called me obese, I must look like Monique, etc. and thought that I wasn't going to say anything back to you. Puleeze! (LOL) Since you wanted to go personal, I went there with you.

I refer to you as a child, kid, and young girl because you are acting like one. I could care less if you disagree or agree with me. That's fine. But the quotes above were not about anything on the subject, but snide comments towards me. And we don't even know each other. This is what children do. They make underhand comments about someone when they are mad or they don't do or say what they want them to do.

And just like you suggested I pass over your comments, you could just as easily pass over mine. It really is that simple. As far as being rude, well sweetheart, you would know. Read what you said to me above and tell me if it wasn't rude. Treat people the way you want to be treated. If you don't want nothing underhanded and personal said about you, then don't say something underhanded and personal about someone else. Isn't this what I have been saying? GOOD LAWD!!!!!!!!!!

And since you didn't get it the first time, let me say again...honey, I am not obese, overweight, or big. What you might want to do is ask yourself why you are so hostile and have such anger and animosity toward obese and heavy BW. It sure seems that way.

Now, you are telling me "you're really pushing it!" It seems you are one of these people who think they can say what they want to folks and it's okay. Well, it's not. In the same way you come at me, that's the way I am going to come at you.

Ann C. said...

@ Foxycleopatra,

I read what you said I will address it.

If you read what Jalilimaster said to me, then you will know she took it personal. That's why I brought up the age because it is childish to sit up and make personal comments about someone you don't even know. Now, I did that as well with her age and saying she was young and immature. But you can not even expect to make comments like "If you think Monique is a respectable person, you are probably like her." Now that was uncalled for WHEN I DIDN'T EVEN MENTION MONIQUE IN MY ORIGINAL COMMENT. Yet, she saw fit to go there with that. So, yes, I went there with her.

I am just going to say it really doesn't matter if we agree or disagree. That's fine. But don't make unnecessary snide personal comments towards someone and then get upset when they do it to you. Treat people the way you want to be treated. That's it.

I really don't care how old someone is. That's not my business. Just like it isn't her business if I look like Monique, if I am in a loving relationship, or if I am obese/heavy/big.

It goes both ways.

If you feel that Howard Stern was right in saying what he said about Sidibe, that's fine. I don't agree. That's it.

I want Sidibe to be healthy, phsyically and mentally, that's it. If you agree or disagree, again that's fine.

Peace and Blessings to you too.

Ann C. said...

@ Pam Grier's Love Child...


I never thought that because I am older and have a daughter, my opinion is worth more. We can learn from each other and if we agree or disagree, that's fine as well.

The reason I went there is because of the comments she made, not about what we were talking about, but personal snide remarks. Just because we don't agree on the Sidibe issue. That's fine. We don't have to. But then the first comment she (Jalilimaster) made was that "if you think Monique is a respectful person, you are probably like her." Now, that was uncalled for. I had not even mentioned Monique, only Sidibe. And it went on from there. She said that "we have free speech." Free speech doesn't give you carte blanche to say what you want about people. That's the way I feel. Now, whether you agree or disagree, cool. But don't respond to what I say and then throw in something personal. It's childish and that's why I got the same way with her.

Age doesn't matter and it's not my business. But if you want respect and want respectful responses to what you write, then you have to give it.

And yes, the bottom line is that, I too wish her (Gaborey Sidibe) the best. She has a great personality. Her other shortcomings (weight, loose mouth) can be worked on.

Ann C. said...

@ Foxycleopatra:
"1. You are arguing over a point that was never made. No where did anyone say that it was ok to degrade or mock someone because of their size. Neither Jalili, myself or anyone else's comment on this post took that stance. So why are you arguing it? I've been on blogs for long enough to recognise such tactics. You could not adequately refute the points that were made s instead, decided to create positions, assign them to someone (in this case Jalilimaster) even though the said someone never took those positions."



I wanted to re-read my original post before I commented on what you said in your 1st point. I said that I thought it was wrong for Stern & Quivers to say that the negative comments about Sidibe (enormous & untalented). Jalilimaster wrote that "talent is in the eye of the beholder" and that "I am trying to understand why it so offensive to refer to a morbidly obese 27 year old woman as ‘enormous’. This is where the weight issue came in. Now, we don't agree. That's fine. But then it went on to something of the effect of "what if the person on the receiving end is fat" and then the last comment said about Stern "we have the right to say something as long as it is not slander." Free speech still exist." Okay, I don't agree that people should be able to say whatever they want, regardless of free speech. Because what you might consider a joke or "telling it like it is" or whatever can be hurtful to someone else. Now, if we don't agree, that's fine. But I responded to what was said.

If the point wasn't it's okay to mock someone because of their size, why bring up "we have the right to say something as long as it's not slander" and "free speech still exists?" Please clarify.

cool_splash1 said...

I'm not trying to be mean, but can we get back to the damn topic.

Lorraine said...

Great post as usual Sara and very interesting perspectives on Miss Sidibe. Lots to ponder here.

JaliliMaster said...

Once again, you (Ann C..) ascribe comments to me which I never made. I didn't read your comments and only glanced through them. You said something alongthe lines of me saying you are like Monique. I never said that. My comments about onique were general i.e it is those who have Monique's mindset that will be unable to see how her ehaviour is wrong. I don't remember you ever mentioning Monique, so why you chose to take my comments about her as some sort of dig at you is something only you can explain. I don't consider the word 'obese' to be an insult. It is just a physical description. Just like the word slim, chubby, blonde, brunette, tall etc. They are just descriptions. If someone makes a wrong assumption about me online, all I do is correct them. I never made that comment to you as an insult, I just stated, quite clearly, that I was assuming that you were obese, which would explain why you had such a negative reaction to a sentence you zoned in on out of an entire comment. Rather than admit that you are being rude, you try to explain away your behaviour by acusing me of being personal first, even though what you use an examples of my 'being personal' had nothing to d with you.

The same goes for the relationship comments. I mean for goodness sake, how ever was I supposed to know what your relationship status was like for it to have been a personal diss at you? Those were general comments saying that only those who have done/achieved a particular thing should give advice on said issue. The fact that I used words like 'you' does not mean I was talking about you in particular. I am not going to do like the poster above who had to put in brackets that she wasn't talking about anyone specific when she said 'you', but was talking about people in general. I expect people to be intelligent enough to figure it out.

_____________________________

"I never thought that because I am older and have a daughter, my opinion is worth more. We can learn from each other and if we agree or disagree, that's fine as well."





You did think that. The reason you kept on, for some strange reason, referring to me as 'kid' was to insult or belittle me. I wasn't insulted. I was just bemused. I remember you making comments along the lines of until I have my own children (and you then added, "who are in their late 20s", just in case I may be a young mother), that I was in no position to talk. What else could that have meant other than I should have kids and wait for them to reach adulthood before giving my opinion!

JaliliMaster said...

"The reason I went there is because of the comments she made, not about what we were talking about, but personal snide remarks. Just because we don't agree on the Sidibe issue. That's fine. We don't have to. But then the first comment she (Jalilimaster) made was that "if you think Monique is a respectful person, you are probably like her." Now, that was uncalled for. I had not even mentioned Monique, only Sidibe. And it went on from there. She said that "we have free speech." Free speech doesn't give you carte blanche to say what you want about people. That's the way I feel. Now, whether you agree or disagree, cool. But don't respond to what I say and then throw in something personal. It's childish and that's why I got the same way with her."



See, that's the thing. You accuse me of making personal comments which I never made (refer to the beggining of this comment). Even though you were making rude and catty remarks, referring to me as "this young girl", "look child", "kid" etc, I still haven't said anything personal to you, and I won't. That is just not me. Do you not see how you have revealed yourself? You imagined up some personal slights and digs that never had anything to do with you in the first place, and you are trying to justify you rude comments by saying..."well she did it first!" Continue.
__________________________


"Age doesn't matter and it's not my business. But if you want respect and want respectful responses to what you write, then you have to give it."



You are the only person that was being disrespectful. The fact is, you didn't like my opinions. However, you knew that your criticisms had little weight, so decided to invent positions, accuse me of having said positions, and then attack me for it. You are probably waiting for me to reply with some personal dig or insult to make you seem less rude, but it won't happen. That just isn't me. Too bad you can't say the same about yourself!

JaliliMaster said...

“I wanted to re-read my original post before I commented on what you said in your 1st point.”


See, here’s the difference. I did not even have to read any my my previous posts because what you were saying I said was so far removed from anything I typed that I knew you were making things up. I still haven’t gone back to make sure I’m not the one making a mistake.


“I said that I thought it was wrong for Stern & Quivers to say that the negative comments about Sidibe (enormous & untalented). Jalilimaster wrote that "talent is in the eye of the beholder" and that "I am trying to understand why it so offensive to refer to a morbidly obese 27 year old woman as ‘enormous’. This is where the weight issue came in. Now, we don't agree. That's fine. But then it went on to something of the effect of "what if the person on the receiving end is fat" and then the last comment said about Stern "we have the right to say something as long as it is not slander." Free speech still exist." Okay, I don't agree that people should be able to say whatever they want, regardless of free speech. Because what you might consider a joke or "telling it like it is" or whatever can be hurtful to someone else. Now, if we don't agree, that's fine. But I responded to what was said.”


Obviously, you don’t understand what the word “rights” mean? You even refer to it as that free speech “bs”. I have gone over it in my previous comments so I won’t do it again. The fact that something might hurt someones feelings DOES NOT MEAN that no one has the right to say it. I don’t agree with Mr Stern’s comments. However, you are the one that said he had no right to say it. Um, he did. The same way Kanye West had a right to go on stage and rant about Taylor Swifts award. The same way Imus had a right to call those Rutgers ladies what he called them. The same way Joe Wilson had a right to shout “you lie” to Pres Obama. They all had a ‘right’ to say these things. I don’t agree with any of them saying it, however, I am under no illusion that they didn’t have the ‘right’ to do it! I have a right to jump off the roof off a skyscraper. It doesn’t mean I should do it. However, I still have the right.

JaliliMaster said...

"If the point wasn't it's okay to mock someone because of their size, why bring up "we have the right to say something as long as it's not slander" and "free speech still exists?" Please clarify."




Normally, I would clarify. However, I have lost all interest in engaging with you. You, woman, are beyond rude! If you really need the clarification, I suggest you do exactly what you've been doing so far. Make up some statement that JaliliMaster said, say JaliliMaster made those comments, then try to 'clarify' them yourself. Lord, this is funny. You are asking me to clarify words which you chose to confuse. What is so hard to grasp about....."we have the right to say something as long as it's not slander" and "free speech still exists?"


There is a reason why when people say 'offensive' stuff, they are not prosecuted. It is not a crime except in certain extreme cases. However, the law doesn't classify "hurting someone's feelings" as breaking the law!

As I have said, you seem well able to 'clarify' my comments in your own special way, so I won't rain on your parade!

Anonymous said...

Howard Stern did what he normally does on his show- crack jokes about heavy set Hollywood women. Anyone who has listened to his show knows that crass, vulgar, locker room humor is par for the course. I'm not defending Stern, but just pointing out that he has been more merciless toward fat white ww who are nearly half Gabourey Sidibe's size, so I don't think he and Robin had any kind of grand plan to single out Sidibe and destroy her career or whatever the media are claiming. Robin Quivers (a bw for those who are unfamiliar with the show) used to be fat herself but you would never know it until you saw her make a television appearance since Stern never made fun of her weight. His comments were naturally taken out of context by the mainstream media, who look like they are trying to, yet again, hype up yet another evil-white-man-attacks-poor-black-girl scenario, so that celebrities like Jessica Simpson and others can jump on the rescue the poor bw bandwagon. On the other hand, non-bw and non-wm celebrities couldn't be bothered to come to the aid of Rhianna who suffered numerous physical injuries after getting the living daylights beaten out of her by her bm boyfriend. That was for the bw to handle themselves, or whatever asinine excuse the gave. But a wm radio shock jock making fat jokes about a morbidly obese woman (which he always does) is suddenly an abuser of human rights. Stern's remarks were indeed tasteless and crude but considerably mild compared to what he's said about other large women (making cow mooing noises while they're speaking) and he was correctly demonstrating how Hollywood phonies are giving Sidibe false hope, patting her on the head and making her feel like she has some illustrious film career ahead of her, like she's going to be the next black Meryl Streep or something. I differ with Stern in that I think she will get work after this film. But knowing how Hollywood operates, they will only cast her in stereotypical roles: the charity case, the friend everyone leans on but no one falls in love with, modern day minstrel show (House of Payne) types of roles, ghetto roles, etc.


"the CDC report issued a few days ago that said 48% of Black women have herpes?"
"---
What a load of malarkey. The sad thing is a lot of people (icluding some BW) are going to buy into this lastest smear campaign and make sure the "news" passed around so that no one misses out on it -- sort of like the bogus "newsflash" of a few years back that made it seem like a huge percentage of BW are infected with HIV."


Sheesh! Apparently, the mainstream media are putting bw through another round of bw are untouchables because of [fill in the blank STD 2.0]. This has the effect of very deeply embedding into the collective psyche a belief that bw have too many problems and pathologies, so why bother with bw when other women are "clean". How can anyone believe that bw are the ones solely responsible for being alone when bw are getting trashed in the media like this?

Anonymous said...

"Until I see bw seriously boycott something that they ACTUALLY USE (and therefore will be deprived of it in the advent of a boycott), I will not take boycott calls from bw very seriously!"

@Foxycleopatra

If every single group who protested or boycotted something waited until every single person or the majority of people in their category got on board and supported their cause, nothing would have ever gotten done. Every Jewish person does not belong to the Anti-Defamation League. Every LGBT person doesn't join every boycott called for by the LGBT groups. But when was the last time you saw these groups (who happen to represent a small percentage of the American population) being trashed in the media? Celebrities know they must keep their views to themselves or otherwise end up like the Grey's Anatomy actor Isaiah Washington, and corporations know whose feathers not to ruffle.

Change always occurs through the efforts of a very tiny but very vocal group of people within any group. That's how it always has been, and that's how it always will be. Some movements only seem like the vast majority of the people participated, such as the anti-Vietnam War and the Civil Rights movements and other famous causes, but in reality most of the American public was not on board. Only a small percentage of African-Americans participated the Civil Rights marches, and during most of the Vietnam war, only a small percentage of Americans expressed any opposition.

You can never make the majority "get it", especially nowadays since the media have the public so dumnbed down, even though they would greatly benefit from the results of your efforts. It's thankless, but...

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." --Margaret Mead

Bellydancer said...

Do you notice that bm are always complaining about bw never smiling or joking back or that they seem unhappy or serious. Maybe they should ask themselves why aren't bm serious most of the time or focused. Why do bm joke around or play too much, cracking jokes and just shucking and jiving.
I think bw have a lot of responsibility put on them at an earlier age so we act accordingly.
Or they will say ww seem more laid back and free. Well I guess so her bills are most likely paid this month, no one is bothering her at the public transportation spot asking for handouts, dates etc...people know not to ask too much of her at work, school, church, she is not expected to come through like bw do.
Maybe if we acted a little more selfishly, we would have a lot of free time and money to ourselves.

Foxycleopatra said...

@ Anonymous March 16, 2010 5:59 AM,

I get what you are saying but I think you are missing some fundamental points.

Anti-defamation league, LGBT orga etc are organisations. Part of their strength comes form their influence, contacts/allies, any noise/complaints/negative media attention they could cause to an offender etc.

For individuals without a protective banner/organisation, your strength comes from:
-Actual protest (eg protest marches) and
-Your money/tangible resources.

Unfortunately in this day and age, as it concerns black folks especially, protest marches do not work. This is bcos the pple we are protesting against know that we barely have any power/influence.

However, the place we still have A LOT of strength is in our influence as consumers. Look at the democratic party. They are more willing/likely to succumb to black demands (or atleast pretend to) because there are the black votes to lose. Republicans on the other hand, know they dont have much to lose. Consider the Montgomery bus boycot during the civl rights era. Even in those days, protesting wasn't enough. They had to boycott the buses and so those bus companies were not getting the money they normally would have from the black passengers which caused severe financial loss. They didnt want that, and so had to address the issue.

The Jewish orgs tend to punish offenders via their influence with advertisers and corporate sponsors. The LGBT do it with their influence/connections in hollywood.

So talk/protest/complaints from bw will not get us any where. Until we actually begin to with-hold our resources from offenders, we will remain in the same rut. It is okay to say that well atleast a few of us can do it. Yeah its nice to think so but better to be realistic. Most of the examples you gave had to do with protests. They had the numbers. Bw will happily come out and protest but how many of those protesting will be willing enough to hit them were it actually hurts?

I've watched several 'misogyny in hip hop' type of programmes. i'm always seeing these young bw on there complaining. Yet these stupid women continue to buy and listen to this music. In terms of money, it only works when a large proporion of people choose to join the boycott. For protesting, 100 pple protesting can have an impact (because of the imagery and negative press) but 100 pple out of say a million consumers will not make anyone flinch.

JaliliMaster said...

“If every single group who protested or boycotted something waited until every single person or the majority of people in their category got on board and supported their cause, nothing would have ever gotten done. Every Jewish person does not belong to the Anti-Defamation League. Every LGBT person doesn't join every boycott called for by the LGBT groups. But when was the last time you saw these groups (who happen to represent a small percentage of the American population) being trashed in the media? Celebrities know they must keep their views to themselves or otherwise end up like the Grey's Anatomy actor Isaiah Washington, and corporations know whose feathers not to ruffle.

Change always occurs through the efforts of a very tiny but very vocal group of people within any group. That's how it always has been, and that's how it always will be. Some movements only seem like the vast majority of the people participated, such as the anti-Vietnam War and the Civil Rights movements and other famous causes, but in reality most of the American public was not on board. Only a small percentage of African-Americans participated the Civil Rights marches, and during most of the Vietnam war, only a small percentage of Americans expressed any opposition.

You can never make the majority "get it", especially nowadays since the media have the public so dumnbed down, even though they would greatly benefit from the results of your efforts. It's thankless, but...”


I get your point. However, as someone mentioned above, BW like to scream about boycotting, but yet, never want to boycott themselves. They are more than happy to boycott a t.v station that they’ve never watched, yet, they can’t stay away from BET. They are more than happy to boycott a film that degrades them, if no one else is interested in watching it. Yet, the will go and see a poorly acted movie with a poorly written script such as “Obsessed”, just so they can howl at the sight of a BW (non-acting Beyonce), beat up the WW (Ali Larter) who was trying to ‘steal’ her ‘good’ BM (Idris Elba). Or even worse, there seems to be a VERY PATHETIC BUNCH of Black ‘females’ out there that rush out to the cinema whenever that creature you people know as Tyler Perry puts out his next piece of horse dung, showing the most stereotypical and degrading images of BW. When I see BW stop doing all this, maybe I’ll start paying a bit more attention when someone shouts “boycott!”

JaliliMaster said...

“Stern's remarks were indeed tasteless and crude but considerably mild compared to what he's said about other large women (making cow mooing noises while they're speaking) and he was correctly demonstrating how Hollywood phonies are giving Sidibe false hope, patting her on the head and making her feel like she has some illustrious film career ahead of her, like she's going to be the next black Meryl Streep or something. I differ with Stern in that I think she will get work after this film. But knowing how Hollywood operates, they will only cast her in stereotypical roles: the charity case, the friend everyone leans on but no one falls in love with, modern day minstrel show (House of Payne) types of roles, ghetto roles, etc.”


I agree (in part). Howard Stern and people of his ilk (these radio shock jock types), annoy me. However, the only reason he is on air is because he has an audience, and that audience brings in ad dollars. I won’t say his comments were ‘mild’ compared to what he usually says about fat ww only because his comments were different. It wasn’t really a personal dig at Gabourey based solely on her weight. What he was going on about, and he was 100% correct, is the way these Hollywood types are all over her, even though they know they won’t give her any roles, except the degrading types that she just acted in (Precious). Had it come from someone with an ounce of respectability, I would give it more weight. However, even though I know what he said concerning the fact that she is never going to have a big, RESPECTABLE career was true, he was not coming from a place of caring for her or advice (then again, why would he), but, as usual, was just insulting her. What these other Hollywood types are doing to her is also insulting, especially as they are assuming that she would be too stupid to realise that they are paying her obviously back handed comments. Unfortunately, it seems these pretentious studio types were right in that assumption.

Lavette said...

Hi Sara,

Good to hear from you love! I am psyched about your new venture hope all goes well for you. Another wonderful and truthful piece but you know what did it for me was when MTV about maybe 3 or 4 years ago had this stupid show on called "Yo Mamma" hosted by that actor who plays Fez on That's 70's Show.

It was all races mostly other copying what blacks used to do called playing the dozens. I didn't watch this show but after seeing clips of it hear and there it got me to thinking wow bp culture and traits are so copied and pasted now by other races that they feel so comfortable in participating in the modern day minstrel show gestures that many of the comics still do today.

Ann C. said...

Bellydancer:

You are correct on the fact that BM always say that BW don't smile or laugh. And some will go so far as to cuss you out if they (BM) say something to you and you don't respond or tell them you don't want to be bothered.

On the topic:

Back in the 90's on the Arsenio Hall Show, Chris Rock was doing stand up. he told a joke that if he spent some money on a sista, he was going to get him some, even if he had to rape her. CBS quickly went to commercial and when they came back, he was gone. Now, he has two daughters. I wonder how much of a joke he will find it if one of his own came home and told him that she had been raped?

Taylor-Sara said...

To the troll who quoted that fake stat, you know very well that's nonsense. And you are not fooling anyone with your contrived 'concern' for bw. Don't bother coming back here......

Taylor-Sara said...

ok, ladies. I read a few of the comments, and apparently some ppl are getting personal, and upset. Let's not do that. Let's learn to communicate without animosity, and if you cannot agree then simply agree to disagree. I know it's a passionate issue, but let's not cloud the issue with personal attack-ok....

Taylor-Sara said...

ok, ladies. I read a few of the comments, and apparently some ppl are getting personal, and upset. Let's not do that. Let's learn to communicate without animosity, and if you cannot agree then simply agree to disagree. I know it's a passionate issue, but let's not cloud the issue with personal attack-ok....

Selena said...

She's a total sweetheart:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEAT6FrXbvk

zoopath said...

@ Jalilmaster: I completely understood everything you said. You were just speaking truth plainly. I differ in that I have some sympathy for anorexic/morbidly obese people, but I don't think anyone is served by distorting reality.

Anonymous said...

When I see BW stop doing all this, maybe I’ll start paying a bit more attention when someone shouts “boycott!”

---

You're very self-important, aren't you?! You also love to throw all BW (who are not you) into a great, big, monolithic pile, don't you?!

Fortunately, not everyone is as into you as you so obviously are....

Anonymous said...

"but yet, never want to boycott themselves."

LOL. What idiot is going to boycott himself?

JaliliMaster said...

Anonymous said...
When I see BW stop doing all this, maybe I’ll start paying a bit more attention when someone shouts “boycott!”

---

You're very self-important, aren't you?! You also love to throw all BW (who are not you) into a great, big, monolithic pile, don't you?!

Fortunately, not everyone is as into you as you so obviously are....
_______________________

Miss Anonymous poster, I haven't the foggiest clue where you are coming from or going to with this comment. It is obvious that what really riled you are my previous comments, so you picked out these ones to reply to, even though what you said has nothing to do with the comments you preteded you were replying to.


Get a life. I couldn't adress your commenst even if I wanted to, as I have no idea what your issue is. And frankly, I don't care. You are a coward. When you stop posting as Anonymous, then I'll take you seriosuly. I'm not prepared to give credence to anonymous moaning. I use this same username whichever site I post on, so that people know it's me.

Once again, get a life and make yourself useful!

Anonymous said...

I have been very reluctant to join this conversation because I have followed many of the comments on this blog and think that people are very entrenched in their positions and when people have chosen a way to live, they can be very adamant about their positions.

Firstly, I am a bw but not AA – I am African, brought up in Africa and Europe, lived in America for a few years and now live in Asia. I am very educated, I have over three degrees and one of them is a medical degree. Please bear with me. I do all this so that you can understand that I come with a different, probably un-American perspective.

I am married to a wonderful, amazing, highly educated, successful, loving, kind beautiful bm (African too) and we have been together for over 12 years. Come to think of it, almost every bm that I know – in my family and immediate friends fall into this category of men. They do exist and there are many of them out there too. Having lived in Europe for much of my growing up years and recently in the past years, I have also considerable and diverse interactions within multicultural settings (and I also speak 2 European languages).

But I am sooo dismayed at the impasse that we seem to have reached in the black community regarding gender relations. We dismiss the men as no-good, the women as ignorant and illiterate but regardless of how far we run – we will always be identified as black and treated as such. It remains our collective responsibilities to steer our men. I am not a psychologist nor am I an anthropologist but it does not take a genius to see that within the AA community, there are problems, The bm is not a recent construct entirely self-willed, he is a product of our community, our cultures, our value-systems and also a product of the larger society. One of my major concerns has been to take my son home to Africa for some years (at least his formative years) - where he will learn to grow to his full potential and be free from what expectations people may have of him.

Anonymous said...

We live up to the expectations that people have of us and that is the often the problem with the AA bm.

Yes, we as bw must learn to see that we are desirable women, worthy of protection and benefitting of chivalry. Men of other races can and do find us attractive ( I have had French, German, Japanese, English,…. men show interest in me to name just a few) but we must educate, enlighten ourselves too. However, IR relationships too also have their histories of abuse, neglect, battery and violence and this is an inescapable fact. I have many African friends who have had particularly unpleasant experiences in IRs. Yes, European men love us – but a walk in the streets of Italy can be unnerving, the men are suggestive and sometimes downright lewd. We, as bw are treated as sex objects. I want to be respected for me – my unique talents, my intellect and not revered as an exotic fetishism.

And yes, we need to be more introspective and look at the problems and ways we as individuals and the community can solve them. Looking to the White dominated media to redeem or portray a positive image of the black person – will not happen. As an African I learnt that a long time ago. People have roles and stereotypes that they are more comfortable dealing with and the image of the successful, beautiful, talented, proud and confident black woman is not one of them… and even rarer, the image of the secure close-knit, happy black family. I think that it is pure naïveté to expect the same rules that apply for white people to apply for black people. It does not happen!! So where-ever I am, I read harder than everyone else, dress with dignity, am more polished than everyone else, more controlled in my manner, language and demeanor because as a bw I get only that one chance at best to prove my worth.

Yes, let us acknowledge the problems that exist – find our own solutions to them – we cannot be self-defeating, we cannot give up hope, these are our sons, our nephews, grandsons. What have we done wrong???? How can we stem the tide? Even if we were to fly the coup, we are still identified as black and the assumptions that are made about us will still be the same- at the group and at the individual level

I think that all relationships, whether same race or IR should be based on love, respect, understanding …etc. So for me it has nothing to do with the person being a bm or non-black. It is where you find peace really.

Sandra77 said...

Jallilmaster and Foxycleopatra: I realize that you are sisters and share similar thoughts and ideas, (and Sara, please forgive me if I'm out of line), but could you two please stop turning Sara's post into your personal back-and-forth? You've taken up fully one-third of the comments to this post saying the same thing over and over again. You've made your point - Enough already! If I just read your responses alone and didn't know I was on Sara's blog, I would think I was reading one of those BM 'anti-BW' websites. A little self-control will take you a long way in this life.

Anonymous said...

@ Anon. 12:14 p.m.

Do you really believe that the majority of AA women have not through the years been supportive of AA men? Are you kidding me? IMO, no woman in the entire world has been more supportive than an AA woman.

What you see now are AA women who are tired and fed up and we are not going to take it any more.

Have you forgotten about those AA men who have achieved well and some of them believe they deserve better than a AA women? Better? I think not?
No group of women are suppose to hold up an entire race by themselves and you know this. Fortunately, most African men are still closed to their native cultures; however, African men too are marrying other race women. You forgot to mention that little information. We are aware of the African women who are dating and marrying other race men.

You forgot to mention all of those
African people who are dying from diseases, starvation and genocide while the rich and well-connected African thrives? Clean your own part of the world before you blog to us.
Quality is key, not race. Maybe irr is not for African women; but, AA women can benefit from a quality other race man.

l.

Binta said...

Hola Sara, great post as usual.

I would like to address the Sister Soldier (Anonymous, March 22 - 12:13 and 12:14). What gives you the impression that this site is condemning your sons and nephews or are you in any way related to Sara?

You come from africa and have lived in Europe and Asia you say and still every single BM you met was perfect? Sorry but I don't believe you because I am a young BW living in Europe and I see DBRBM everywhere. Not only the football stars and rappers who only date and marry non-BW although they love to have sex with BW just like those who come here to study, who have children in Africa they ignore.

Most of my friends are europeans but I know at least 5 BM who studied in Europe during the late 80s and early 90s who are now married with non-BW and have biracial kids. These men have the nerve to tell me that they find me a) very attractive, b)that they would like to have sex with me because only a BW can make them happy and c) I should understand because it is in "our" african culture for a man to have a lot of wives. They pull a face and get irritated when they hear my boyfriend is white and that I am happy and more than satisfied with him. Then this educated men degrade themselves by telling me they could do "IT" better because they were bigger...........I don't even want to go into details any longer. My point is you, my dear, are a liar, you're probably a troll BM or one of those people who don't have BW's best interest at heart. Are your so-called brothers, sons and nephews aware of the fact that modern (trash) music and movies from BM don't even include and/or uplift their mothers, sisters, nieces and other female counterparts? And if they do support one, she's the lightest skinned BW or biracial (I notice they prefer biracial women with non-BW mothers) person I have ever seen.

Thanks for mentionning that non-BM who are interested in BW just do so to taste some "dark meat". Apparently you don't have a problem with the fact that the same applies for non-BW who get together with BM. This clearly shows me you are truly from the "Nothing but a BM brigade" I hope no one gets fooled by your chewed-out tactics of recruiting young meat for the brothas. No one ever said that all men from all over the world preferred BW but I would like to see more BW dating interracially without being called a sellout. Check IMDB and have a look at any BW who dates a WM to see at least one tag calling her a sellout.

End part I

Binta said...

part II

You are not fooling any one here with your comments. I have a wonderful brother back home who is going to marry his girlfriend of 2 yrs but I also aknowledge the fact that many men in my family are DBRBM. It's no use lying or twisting the facts. You solve a problem by calling it by it's name and try to find a solution to it.

Why on earth do you want BW to save the sinking titanic when the men who are responsible for it by i.e. killing each other, raping and killing their fellow young ones (boys and girls), buying platinum gold teeth and golden bones (Snoop) as soon as they get rich don't even lift a finger.

I wish more BW would come to these sites and see that a life full of love and happiness can come from white, asian, arab....man.

R.E.S.P.E.C.T is very important in every relationship but you have to carry and treat yourself accordingly. Quality only attracts quality.

Btw: please stop the catfights, ladies you are repeating yourselves over and over again. This kind's of distracts from the powerful message Sara is trying to deliver. Do her at least the favour.

Oshun said...

Anon @ 12:13 and 12:14

1. The fates of AA women are not tied to AA men.

2. The purpose of IR is not to escape being AA, but so that AA women can create strong healthy families. If AA men were perfect there is no way for all AA women to marry one because we heavily outnumber them.

3. Negative does not = AA culture and identity and AA women can create a new brand to separate themselves from underclass AAs who perpetuate the negative.

4. Men are men. They steer the community and the race. It is not a woman's responsibility to steer a man.

5. "The bm is not a recent construct entirely self-willed, he is a product of our community, our cultures, our value-systems and also a product of the larger society."

I will take this as an explanation, but it is not an excuse. Adults can reason and make choices. The result of AA men's choices is lots of BW and children suffering and dying at the hands of AA men. These women have options they should exercise. BM can and should save themselves. No woman should sacrifice her life and happiness doing that for a man.


6. "Yes, let us acknowledge the problems that exist – find our own solutions to them – we cannot be self-defeating, we cannot give up hope, these are our sons, our nephews, grandsons. What have we done wrong???? How can we stem the tide?"

Again, there is no "we" in this. This is not BWs battle to fight. It is not up to BW to help BM be men. Either they got that from their fathers or they didn't.

If sons, brothers, nephews, grandsons are damaged then they should be treated as such and dealt with appropriately. A woman who has damaged men in her family will suffer greatly and needlessly I might add. It is of no benefit to her to squander her resources correcting/helping these men.


7. "Even if we were to fly the coup, we are still identified as black and the assumptions that are made about us will still be the same- at the group and at the individual level."

Again AA/black does not equal negative and BW marrying IR is not about escaping blackness.

Oshun said...

@ Sandra,

I want to add I think the free speech argument could be a slippery slope. I know that some enterprising DBRBM or group of DMRBM can take that and run 10 miles with it.

Oshun said...

Thank you!

I had a feeling that Anon would be dealt with.

It did not escape my attention that she herself is married to a (quality?) male, is educated, well traveled, and has the option of having her son educated in Africa so that he can have the benefits of strong positive culture/family/community ties

and yet is advising AA BW to continue to commit suicide and eliminate the possibility of those very same options/experiences in their own lives.

JaliliMaster said...

To that anonymous African poster, please quit that “let’s all save the BM” nonsense that you are on. I am African as well, so whatever untrue story you might try to make will not wash with me. It is convenient for you to come on here and tell AA women to basically ‘hold steadfast’, and wait and work to improve BM and solve their issues. The fact is that if African women, whichever country they come from, where the ones who had ridiculously high singleness/non-married rates, and almost every African child being born out of wedlock, your opinion would be very different. And if things were all so great, why didn’t you remain in whatever African country you are from? Why did you come to Europe? The fact is that as AA women are suffering, you get to look at them and laugh and say, “ha, what is so wrong with you women that ‘your’ men don’t marry you?” If you were part of the demographic who had to be hearing this, your opinion would probably be different. I am not AA. However, I don’t need to be AA to know that they (AA women) have, at least in my opinion, wasted way too much of their time AND THEIR LIVES, running after BM in a bid to save them, despite the fact that AA men have reciprocated this IN NO WAY WHATSOEVER.



Oshun said:
6. "Yes, let us acknowledge the problems that exist – find our own solutions to them – we cannot be self-defeating, we cannot give up hope, these are our sons, our nephews, grandsons. What have we done wrong???? How can we stem the tide?"

Again, there is no "we" in this. This is not BWs battle to fight. It is not up to BW to help BM be men. Either they got that from their fathers or they didn't.

If sons, brothers, nephews, grandsons are damaged then they should be treated as such and dealt with appropriately. A woman who has damaged men in her family will suffer greatly and needlessly I might add. It is of no benefit to her to squander her resources correcting/helping these men."




I agree. BW (and AA women in particular) should be wary of anyone telling them to, basically, continue suffering. That is what this African Ikette poster is saying. And I’m not even bothered if your feelings are hurt. You intentionally came on here to tell these women, many of whom are in dire straits, to “be strong”. It dawned on me some time ago that many times, these are comments meant in bad faith. I suspect you fall under this category, if anything, because of the following comment you made:


“I have been very reluctant to join this conversation because I have followed many of the comments on this blog and think that people are very entrenched in their positions and when people have chosen a way to live, they can be very adamant about their positions.”


You state that you were reluctant to join the conversation. Yet, you were more than happy to post your comments AT THE END, so that your comments would be there for all to see, but as so many people have posted, fewer would be willing to critique your arguments. If there are any positions that BW are ‘entrenched’ in, one of them is this “save a brotha” tripe that you are trying to peddle. If you want to remain in a cesspit of being “the world’s mule”, by all means go ahead; but please, get out of the way of other sensible BW trying to leave it and stop trying to pull everyone else back!

JaliliMaster said...

Sandra77 said...
“Jallilmaster and Foxycleopatra: I realize that you are sisters and share similar thoughts and ideas, (and Sara, please forgive me if I'm out of line), but could you two please stop turning Sara's post into your personal back-and-forth? You've taken up fully one-third of the comments to this post saying the same thing over and over again. You've made your point - Enough already! If I just read your responses alone and didn't know I was on Sara's blog, I would think I was reading one of those BM 'anti-BW' websites. A little self-control will take you a long way in this life.”




I have taken up “one-third” of the comments. There are over one hundred comments on this post, so are you telling me that I made upwards of thirty comments? No. Your real issue is that the comments I made are subjects that you didn’t agree with. Hence, the few comments I made, to you, seemed to “take up all of the comments”, but you ignore all the comments that were posted (in most cases, by the same person). You ignore all their ‘back-and-forth’ because you agree with them. You want their opinions to be aired, but want anyone who has my opinion to keep quiet. Not going to happen. I realise that it is a touchy issue. But if some of you are going to argue that there are ‘more sides’ to the story, as opposed to the media’s characterisation of anyone with weight problems, then you also have to accept that some of those ‘sides’ are positions that you won’t agree with.


I have noticed on some of these sites that the typical way to shut BW up is to accuse them of ‘sounding’ like anti-BW BM. That is not going to work with me. When you can point out anything anti-BW comment that I made, then you can start selling that line. In a bid to keep me quiet, you are now trying to label me an undercover BW hater, and talking about self-control. I don’t even know what self-control has to do with it. The first poster tried to make her arguments by throwing personal attacks my way, it didn’t work. They then tried straw man arguments, it still didn’t work. I would have thought that by now, it would be obvious to everyone that these tactics don’t move me. If you want to make an argument, do so on the merits of your positions.

_________________________________



Oshun said...
“@ Sandra,

I want to add I think the free speech argument could be a slippery slope. I know that some enterprising DBRBM or group of DMRBM can take that and run 10 miles with it.”



I am the one that made the comments regarding free speech, so you might have well just addressed your comments to me. I am assuming you disagree with my comments. I am okay with that. I have seen your posts on other sites and you make several intelligent comments, so I choose to believe that this wasn’t you trying to dismiss what I said without even addressing the comment itself.

Alta said...

To the African Anon:

I really don't think you should be telling Black women (whether AA, Haitain, Nigerian, Dominican, whatever) that they need to pick Black men up and help him out when you've already found a stable, good Black man. You see where I'm going with this?

How can you tell these women to keep on keeping on in the good 'ole fight when you're not taking part of it? I'll bet you didn't have to make your husband well educated, kind, loving, wonderful, etc. You already found him like that didn't you? You didn't have to mold him right?

You've found your happiness and marriage, so don't try to restrict other Black women from doing the same. I know that's not your intention, but that's what it reads as, especially since you're trying to get them to put up with the very thing they want out of their lives.

JaliliMaster said...

Sandra77 said...
“Jallilmaster and Foxycleopatra: I realize that you are sisters and share similar thoughts and ideas, (and Sara, please forgive me if I'm out of line), but could you two please stop turning Sara's post into your personal back-and-forth? You've taken up fully one-third of the comments to this post saying the same thing over and over again. You've made your point - Enough already! If I just read your responses alone and didn't know I was on Sara's blog, I would think I was reading one of those BM 'anti-BW' websites. A little self-control will take you a long way in this life.”




I have taken up “one-third” of the comments. There are over one hundred comments on this post, so are you telling me that I made upwards of thirty comments? No. Your real issue is that the comments I made are subjects that you didn’t agree with. Hence, the few comments I made, to you, seemed to “take up all of the comments”, but you ignore all the comments that were posted (in most cases, by the same person). You ignore all their ‘back-and-forth’ because you agree with them. You want their opinions to be aired, but want anyone who has my opinion to keep quiet. Not going to happen. I realise that it is a touchy issue. But if some of you are going to argue that there are ‘more sides’ to the story, as opposed to the media’s characterisation of anyone with weight problems, then you also have to accept that some of those ‘sides’ are positions that you won’t agree with.


I have noticed on some of these sites that the typical way to shut BW up is to accuse them of ‘sounding’ like anti-BW BM. That is not going to work with me. When you can point out anything anti-BW comment that I made, then you can start selling that line. In a bid to keep me quiet, you are now trying to label me an undercover BW hater, and talking about self-control. I don’t even know what self-control has to do with it. The first poster tried to make her arguments by throwing personal attacks my way, it didn’t work. They then tried straw man arguments, it still didn’t work. I would have thought that by now, it would be obvious to everyone that these tactics don’t move me. If you want to make an argument, do so on the merits of your positions.

_________________________________



Oshun said...
“@ Sandra,

I want to add I think the free speech argument could be a slippery slope. I know that some enterprising DBRBM or group of DMRBM can take that and run 10 miles with it.”



I am the one that made the comments regarding free speech, so you might have well just addressed your comments to me. I am assuming you disagree with my comments. I am okay with that. I have seen your posts on other sites and you make several intelligent comments, so I choose to believe that this wasn’t you trying to dismiss what I said without even addressing the comment itself.

JaliliMaster said...

To that anonymous African poster, please quit that “let’s all save the BM” nonsense that you are on. I am African as well, so whatever untrue story you might try to make will not wash with me. It is convenient for you to come on here and tell AA women to basically ‘hold steadfast’, and wait and work to improve BM and solve their issues. The fact is that if African women, whichever country they come from, where the ones who had ridiculously high singleness/non-married rates, and almost every African child being born out of wedlock, your opinion would be very different. And if things were all so great, why didn’t you remain in whatever African country you are from? Why did you come to Europe? The fact is that as AA women are suffering, you get to look at them and laugh and say, “ha, what is so wrong with you women that ‘your’ men don’t marry you?” If you were part of the demographic who had to be hearing this, your opinion would probably be different. I am not AA. However, I don’t need to be AA to know that they (AA women) have, at least in my opinion, wasted way too much of their time AND THEIR LIVES, running after BM in a bid to save them, despite the fact that AA men have reciprocated this IN NO WAY WHATSOEVER.



Oshun said:
6. "Yes, let us acknowledge the problems that exist – find our own solutions to them – we cannot be self-defeating, we cannot give up hope, these are our sons, our nephews, grandsons. What have we done wrong???? How can we stem the tide?"

Again, there is no "we" in this. This is not BWs battle to fight. It is not up to BW to help BM be men. Either they got that from their fathers or they didn't.

If sons, brothers, nephews, grandsons are damaged then they should be treated as such and dealt with appropriately. A woman who has damaged men in her family will suffer greatly and needlessly I might add. It is of no benefit to her to squander her resources correcting/helping these men."




I agree. BW (and AA women in particular) should be wary of anyone telling them to, basically, continue suffering. That is what this African Ikette poster is saying. You intentionally came on here to tell these women, many of whom are in dire straits, to “be strong”. It dawned on me some time ago that many times, these are comments meant in bad faith. I suspect you fall under this category, if anything, because of the following comment you made:


“I have been very reluctant to join this conversation because I have followed many of the comments on this blog and think that people are very entrenched in their positions and when people have chosen a way to live, they can be very adamant about their positions.”


You state that you were reluctant to join the conversation. Yet, you were more than happy to post your comments AT THE END, so that your comments would be there for all to see, but as so many people have posted, fewer would be willing to critique your arguments. If there are any positions that BW are ‘entrenched’ in, one of them is this “save a brotha” tripe that you are trying to peddle. If you want to remain in a cesspit of being “the world’s mule”, by all means go ahead; but please, get out of the way of other sensible BW trying to leave it and stop trying to pull everyone else back!

Foxycleopatra said...

@ Anonymous March 22, 2010 12:13 PM,

I have been very reluctant to join this conversation because I have followed many of the comments on this blog and think that people are very entrenched in their positions and when people have chosen a way to live, they can be very adamant about their positions.

I said:
So what made you join the conversation then? This post is about black people and the image they portray (whether by how they act, present themselves etc). So what does ‘saving a brotha’ have to do with this conversation? Of course you didn’t want to join the conversation as you needed to find a way of injecting this into this post.
-------------------------------


Firstly, I am a bw but not AA – I am African, brought up in Africa and Europe, lived in America for a few years and now live in Asia. I am very educated, I have over three degrees and one of them is a medical degree. Please bear with me. I do all this so that you can understand that I come with a different, probably un-American perspective.

I am married to a wonderful, amazing, highly educated, successful, loving, kind beautiful bm (African too) and we have been together for over 12 years. Come to think of it, almost every bm that I know – in my family and immediate friends fall into this category of men. They do exist and there are many of them out there too. Having lived in Europe for much of my growing up years and recently in the past years, I have also considerable and diverse interactions within multicultural settings (and I also speak 2 European languages).

I said:
I do not disagree with you too much on this. Atleast, thank God you are not one of those bw who will come and say, “the bm in my family are all ‘good’ bm and yet some of those bm relatives are exhibiting DBR behaviours. If I am honest with you, as at present, I cannot think of any DBR bm member of my family or anyone who is in my circle of friends. That is for a reason. If anyone in my family exhibited such silly behaviours, they know what will happen to them. As for friends, well, nobody has a right to demand access to me or my social circles. I pick my friends very carefully. I remember in the 1st yr of my university, some of the bm students were complaining that I don’t like to hang around with black ppel, called me an ‘oreo/cocnut’ etc. They were stupid enough to think that this would even bother me. Of course, what they actually meant was that I didn’t like to hang around with blk pple like them. They were behaving in dbr ways and were getting angry when I chose not to allow them to be anywhere near me.
Nobody is saying that these types of non-dbr bm do not exist. Bw are just being encouraged to not allow those who are indeed dbr to have any connection to them or their lives.

Foxycleopatra said...

But I am sooo dismayed at the But I am sooo dismayed at the impasse that we seem to have reached in the black community regarding gender relations. We dismiss the men as no-good, the women as ignorant and illiterate but regardless of how far we run – we will always be identified as black and treated as such. It remains our collective responsibilities to steer our men. I am not a psychologist nor am I an anthropologist but it does not take a genius to see that within the AA community, there are problems, The bm is not a recent construct entirely self-willed, he is a product of our community, our cultures, our value-systems and also a product of the larger society. One of my major concerns has been to take my son home to Africa for some years (at least his formative years) - where he will learn to grow to his full potential and be free from what expectations people may have of him.

I said:
Ok, this is where I began to have major issues with your comments.
1. You said the impasse that ‘we’ seemed to have reached. Pls who exactly are ‘we’? Blk pple are not a monolithic grp who all have the same opinions/viewpoints on every issue.

2. ‘We will be identified as black’...umm so what? Every negative thing that any random blk person does, does not have to be put on every other blk person, irrespective of what society at large may think. It is not your fault that society chooses to lump you in any negative category just because some other black person does something negative, but it is your fault for accepting it.


3. ‘It remains our collective responsibility to steer our men’.....says who? I assume that ‘our’ here refers to bw and ‘our men’ here refers to bm. Why is it ‘our’ responsibility? My responsibility is to the man I marry and any sons I give birth to! I have no responsibility to any ‘group’ of men just because we have a similar skin shade. This is the same nonsense that was peddled during the civil rights era. Funnily enough, they never informed us what bm’s responsibility to bw was. It was shut up and support bm and when bm reach the ‘top’, we will bring bw to join us. We know how that turned out!

Foxycleopatra said...

4. ‘The bm is not a recent construct entirely self-willed’. Ok, this one actually made me chuckle. Pls, what functioning human being on this planet is not self-willed? Unless there is some sort of mental condition or (some other spirit possessing you), you are in complete control of your actions. It is like some of you want to absolve bm from any responsibility for their actions whatsoever! You say, bm are a product of our culture, value-system, community. Well yes they are. We all are (irrespective of race/gender). Will you excuse racism from a white person because ‘they are a product of our value-system’? Also, what ‘culture’ exactly are you referring to? Blk ppl all over the world have different cultures. It depends on where you are from. As for community, you’ve got to be kidding me right? What community? A community is a place where the members are safe, are thriving, support each other to progress etc. The only ppl enmass doing any supporting are bw. As for safety, in the US, up to half of bw are raped or sexually assaulted. In the UK, majority of gang rape incidents are committed by black or mixed race males and the vast majority of their victims are young black women. In South Africa up to 1 in 4 men say they have raped a woman (http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1906000,00.html), child rape incidents are on the increase (http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=25806), in Congo, rape is used as a weapon against black women and girls (http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2009/10/2009102282534764573.html), and just look at this depraved, disgusting nonsense that happened in Haiti during the recent earthquake disaster (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/centralamericaandthecaribbean/haiti/7098443/Haiti-criminals-raping-women-and-girls-in-camps.html). As for those bm who do not do such, they are quite obviously not doing much to protect and ensure the safety of the bw around them. The job of a man is to provide and protect. In the blk ‘community’ in the west, most of the providing is done by bw and nobody does the protecting.

5. You said u r taking your son back home to Africa to raise him. Why? What is wrong with raising him where you live or raising him in these same ‘communities’ that you are telling other bw to stay in, save and therefore raise their kids there? You are taking your son somewhere that you belive is more conducive and these bw are also choosing to (as you have done) to move to other communities with like-minded, forward-thinking pple, to live their lives and raise their families. I have noticed that African families who send their kids back to be raised do so for some main reasons:

- They want their kids to experience their culture
- They kids have been playing ‘truant’/misbehaving and so feel that it will stop with the kind of ‘discipline’ they will get in ‘Africa’.
- Look at other kids and are worried their kids might turn out the same so send them back so that they are not in their formative years exposed to the negative things.

6. ‘Ppl will have no expectations of him’. Huh? So u mean u have no expectations of your husband? No expectations of your son? No expectations of yourself? It is because ppl en mass have no or low expectations of bm that a lot of them are willing to be measured on a curve and act like there is nothing wrong with that.

Foxycleopatra said...

We live up to the expectations that people have of us and that is the often the problem with the AA bm.

I said:
If u mean that there are generally low expectations, then yes, I agree with you. As for living up to the expectations ppl have of us, that is absolute nonsense. That is just an excuse you have chosen to make. Several blk ppl ‘expect’ white ppl to be racist but those white ppl are either racist of not.....irrespective of what you may expect. Some women may expect men to be sexist/misogynistic....but that does not increase or reduce the chance that those men will be. Doesnt society at large have some low expectations of black women? When women (of whatever race) were not believed to be as smart as men, did that stop women from excelling at school and even surpassing the performance of a lot of males? This silly excuse only ever seems to be applied to bm. If you have low expectations, well it is bcos of that that they are where they are bcos they are living up to your low expectations. If on the other hand, you have high expectations, it is that you are too picky or society is expecting more from them than they would from another demographic.
------------------------------------------------------

Yes, we as bw must learn to see that we are desirable women, worthy of protection and benefitting of chivalry. Men of other races can and do find us attractive ( I have had French, German, Japanese, English,…. men show interest in me to name just a few) but we must educate, enlighten ourselves too. However, IR relationships too also have their histories of abuse, neglect, battery and violence and this is an inescapable fact. I have many African friends who have had particularly unpleasant experiences in IRs. Yes, European men love us – but a walk in the streets of Italy can be unnerving, the men are suggestive and sometimes downright lewd. We, as bw are treated as sex objects. I want to be respected for me – my unique talents, my intellect and not revered as an exotic fetishism.

I said:
Ok, so you fiiinaaaly come to it. Well I have to ask, why in the first place do some blk women feel they are not worthy of chivalry? I know I am desirable. I don’t waste my time with men who will not find me desirable. There are 6.5 billion ppl in this world and lets assume half are male. That is a lot to choose from. So why should any bw, restrict herself to bm,.......a grp that do not restrict themselves to bw? As for IR relationships having their ‘history’ of abuse etc, who every said IR relationships were all perfect? Sara is just showing bw that IR is indeed an option and encouraging bw to get out of the idiotic ‘nothing but a bm’ mantra. As for those African women who have had unpleasant experiences in IR, I do not deny that they can happen. Obviously they can. That is why bw are encouraged to date QUALITY men. BW are being encouraged to pick men based on their quality as men and partners and not based solely on their race. Let’s keep it real, domestic violence (spousal abuse) is rather high in several African countries. In fact, it is still seen as acceptable. Would you because of this encourage African women to stop getting married to African men? I doubt and neither would I. This same way, the fact that some bw may have negative IR experiences doesn’t mean that anyone should then discourage bw from being in IR. Choose men based on their QUALITY!!!

Foxycleopatra said...

And yes, we need to be more introspective and look at the problems and ways we as individuals and the community can solve them. Looking to the White dominated media to redeem or portray a positive image of the black person – will not happen. As an African I learnt that a long time ago. People have roles and stereotypes that they are more comfortable dealing with and the image of the successful, beautiful, talented, proud and confident black woman is not one of them… and even rarer, the image of the secure close-knit, happy black family.

I said:
To be honest, I used to be of similar mind but let us look at blk media. For the most part, how many times do blk pple themselves support those positive blk images? The bm who have been able to break into the media, what do they do? HipHop (that degrades bw and adds to the bm stereotype), Tyler Perry (that has made his fortune off degrading the black female image). I’m sorry, but we cannot blame that on the white media.
---------------------------------------------


Yes, let us acknowledge the problems that exist – find our own solutions to them – we cannot be self-defeating, we cannot give up hope, these are our sons, our nephews, grandsons. What have we done wrong???? How can we stem the tide? Even if we were to fly the coup, we are still identified as black and the assumptions that are made about us will still be the same- at the group and at the individual level

I said:
These women are indeed finding solutions for themselves. It seems that the problem pple have is that these solutions are no longer bm-focused.
‘These’ are NOT my sons, nephews or grandsons. My sons are the males I give birth to (or adopt), my nephews are the male children of my siblings and my grandsons are the male children of my children. Other random bm DO NOT classify as my ‘sons, nephews and grandsons’!
---------------------------------------------

I think that all relationships, whether same race or IR should be based on love, respect, understanding …etc. So for me it has nothing to do with the person being a bm or non-black. It is where you find peace really.

I said:
I completely agree with you. Pls tell that to your ‘nothing but a bm’ sistas!

Any bw silly enough to choose a man just because he is white or non-black is only making problems for herself. I have noticed though that ppl who have issues with bw dating IR only seem to have a problem when black women use race as the criteria when choosing a mate, only when the race is non-black. When the race criteria is black (which happens to be the majority of cases), no one seems to care that the main motivation for these women's choices was also race.

Beatrice said...

On another note, I understand that the whole issue of weight and BW is a touchy one. In my mid teens, I put on a lot of weight and it took me up to my late 20’s to lose it. It made me develop a serious complex, which stayed with me for some time after I had eventually lost the weight. I disagree with what jalilimaster said, although I understand where she was coming from. It may be because I have suffered with weight problems in the past, so I might see things from a different viewpoint. However Sandra77, the personal comments seemed to come from some of the posters who disagreed with jal-master. I don’t hold it against her if she was trying to correct someone that was misinterpreting what she posted. I thought them saying personal things and underhanded insults were unnecessary and uncalled for. I understand that it may have hit a nerve, but that was no excuse to get personal with her just because she had a different opinion. People, we can disagree without getting nasty. This site is for BW, and we should understand that we are not a monolith. I understand that whenever BW and weight is mentioned, many of us get worked up because it affects us. I have this problem as well, but luckily, I am managing to get rid of it. After almost 15 years of being very overweight, after my weight loss, if someone complimented me on my appearance, I would think, in the back of my mind, that they were trying to make fun of me. I was a medium sized outgoing child and teenager. By age twenty, I was very overweight. My bubbly personality was still there, so I was what many would call “ a skinny girl in a fat girls body.” It used to upset me thinking that I would be judged based only on my appearance and people would not be willing to get to know my personality. In most cases, that is what happened. I started to withdraw and my personality became less outgoing. I always felt uncomfortable if someone looked at me for more than 1 second, because I was convinced that they were secretly making fun of my size. Even when I slimmed down, I was the “fat girl in the slim girls body.” I also felt this need to snap at anyone, as some sort of payback for how I had felt throughout all my years as a bigger woman. This only pushed my friends away. I am glad to say that I am finally getting my real personality back. The outgoing, friendly, lively woman is back, and the woman who had a low opinion of herself is gone.

That is why I partly disagree with jalmaster. She is right when she said that Gaboury Sidibes weight can cause serious health problems, however, she does have my sympathies. I have been big in the past, so I know how difficult it can sometimes be to lose the weight. I think some readers misunderstood her and assumed she was saying it was alright to make fun of them. That is not what I understood from her comments at all. And as for Monique, I am surprised to hear that she does and says these things. She seemed like someone who knew who she was. I guess I was wrong. It’s her relationship, but from what I have learnt, her husband doesn’t seem to respect her. When someone like Howard Stern makes fun of her, whatever his motives, it does not help. It makes her feel bad about herself. I am talking from experience. I agree with free speech. However, I don’t think that we should just say anything because we can (jalmaster, I am not saying that this is what you said, I know what you actually meant). The fact that it is not illegal to hurt someone else’s feelings shouldn’t mean that we should. The poster (oshun) was right when she said that it could be a slippery slope.



--------Bea

Beatrice said...

I don’t know exactly how things are in Africa, but I recently moved to north England from America for a work placement, and have observed the BP here from the West Indies and Africa. What is said about BM here dating non-BW as a norm is true. Something like 50% of all West Indian men are in IR relationships here in the UK. The number is much lower for African men, but they are still significant. I have also observed the African women/girls here and their behavior is very different from what I was used to back home (in America). You will see some African women every now and then say that she will not even look twice at a WM, but most would either happily date WM, or even if they are not interested, they wouldn’t publicly denounce it the way I was so used to AA women doing. I assume the attitude is the same in other parts of Europe. In fact, there are many here who just assume that Black American women are only interested in dating BM. Some of my work colleagues were joking around, and they started talking about who in the office they would and wouldn’t date. There are a two West Indian women in my office and a few young African women, some East Indian and Pakistani women, but most of the people who work in my office are white.. The men were laughing and joking about certain women in our workplace being out of their league. One of the men started mentioning some of the women in our office he would love to date. I was close by, so one of the other men seemed a bit embarrassed that he hadn’t said he found me attractive. I was not hurt because people are attracted by different things. What did annoy me was what happened after. It was embarrassing enough that he gave me a ‘pity’ mention, but another one now gave me this look, as if to say, ‘you understand what he means, don’t you?’ Before I could say anything, he said, ‘you do know that it’s not because you are Black or anything.’ Normally, I would just fake a chuckle and ignore it, but it actually cut me deep because no one mentioned had mentioned race. They started saying that if it was because I am Black, then they wouldn’t have ‘fancied’ (a British word) the other ‘Black birds’ in the office. One of them then said that he just wasn’t that interested in ‘those Black American birds.’ The others seemed to agree with him. At that point, I couldn’t figure out whether I was annoyed or embarrassed. I let it go. A few weeks later, one of my Pakistani female friends told me that the reason they said that was because the general belief is that AA women only date AAM/BM. I have learnt that the main reason few non-BM date/marry AA women is because they think we are not interested in them. That is why even when these foreign BW come to America, they are still able to have access to a wide range of men not just those men from their own backgrounds.

In the past few months, my eyes have opened up to view things from a different perspective and it has really helped me. My persona has even become brighter. One of the men I talked about recently came up to me and started talking. We have now become good work buddies. Can you believe that he even apologized for what he had said, which was several months ago. He said he had not meant to hurt my feelings but from the look on my face, he could tell that he had. I asked him why it took several months before he felt bad. His answer was very revealing. Previously, he hadn’t viewed me in terms of a woman with feelings. I was just another one of those BW with attitude. Never mind that he had never even bothered to get to know me before he assumed I had an attitude. Now that we are friends he saw how nice I was, and it just made him remember that conversation, and it made him feel bad. In one way, it is good that he opened himself up to see my true personality. It is also worrying that all these negative images of AA women are being seen and perceived by others so far away from home.



-----Bea

Alena said...

@Binta and @Oshun

You are both so right! And funny. I suspect that so-called African woman was a troll too, because African women have no problem with marrying European men. They've been doing it since the beginning of time.

Also, it is IMPOSSIBLE for a woman to steer a man, because men RESENT being told what to do by women. That's why men who grow up without a father tend to hate women so much. Even the so-called "Momma's boys."

JaliliMaster said...

Alena, I don't think that African woman was a troll, in the most common sense of the word. I think those are her true general opinions. I am African myself (Nigerian), and it is true that not just African women, but non-AA BW don't have as much problem with dating IR. And remember that African women have some of the highest rates of marriage in the world. So it is not due to lack of African men that they date/marry IR. In fact, in America, African women have higher rates of IR marriages than African men. This should tell everyone that these burdens facing AA women are not common to other BW, and most definitely not African women. So I would take it with a pinch of salt if some African chick starts pleading with AA women to be patient. African women are not being patient when it comes to marriage. Neither are Asian women. It should not surprise you that in America, these are the two groups of women that are most likely to marry.

For most African girls, their main opposition to dating IR is due to potential parental/familial disapproval. The same is not true for AA girls. It seems that their main opposition is either because they think non-Black men wouldn’t want them, or to not piss AA men off. So to any non-BM, it is always a better story for him and his gf to be star crossed lovers than to be because she ‘preferred’ a BM.

My view, quite simply, is that AA women either need to get on with it, get over it, or get the h__l out. I’ll explain:
1. Get on with it: Get with the programme. If hordes of you are restricting yourselves to AA men, while at the same time, the majority of these men are not restricting themselves to you, you are lowering your social capital. Why? Because you are now yearning for a man that (a) isn’t yearning for you, or (b) might desire you, but not only you.

2. Get over it: Whether you want to admit it is completely irrelevant. But AA men have every right to not date/marry AA women. You can’t force someone to take you on a date. You can’t force someone to like you. Most AA men who have a problem with AA women opening themselves to love and happiness from the global village either do not have or have much less problem with AA men doing the same. If AA women, after they’ve seen everything, still choose to remain in a state of cluelessness, they will have only themselves to blame. BM are not doing anything different now than they did 10 years ago. Before, the singleness rate amongst AA women was 70%, that very popularly quoted figure. Now it is creeping up to and beyond 80%. If more and more AA women are involved in IR relationships, yet more and more of them are still single, that should tell AA women that even less and less numbers of AA men are marrying AA women. Not that the rate of childbirth has not decreased at a higher pace than that for other ethnicities in America. So AA women are still having more and more kids with AA men, but are just being married by them less.

3. Get the h__l out: If you still don’t get it, shut up, have a doughnut, and get out of the way!

Bellydancer said...

To Beatrice it is amazing how even foreign men have this concept of the black woman with an attitude no doubt that idea being spread by black men over there in England where black men date IR like their lives depend on it. Black women are under assault everywhere today that's why we need to take back our image and control it and not participate in silly things that do not benefit us. Black men talk way too much about our personal habits, beauty, weight, sexual desires etc... then me and my friends ever talked about frankly I find it disturbing.

Anonymous said...

Ok Ladies,

I’m the African Anon, who’s been completely misunderstood. I think almost everything that I said was completely misconstrued, so this is my long but last comment to clarify issues. Actually I was so dismayed when I read the responding comments. I almost did not recognise myself as the person that was being conjured because everything written there was completely alien to my inane beliefs.

Firstly, I am really African, from Nigeria and not a “troll”. I’m new to this so I suppose trolling must mean being a “spoil sport”. I really have way too much to do and obsess about to waste time doing this. And for me it’s just plain bad manners and bad taste to intentionally try to reduce or diminish anything that anyone has tried to build to address issues that are REAL and dear to them. Unless it was a neo-nazi or misogynist site then why not?Firstly, I came upon this site quite by chance, I visit a lot of sites that promote black and African women and this piqued my interest. Why? My sister, one of the people dearest to me is getting married to a British WM later this year and I just thought that it would be of interest to see what issues affected women in IR marriages. I also thought that it would be a laugh to share this with her. I sent her the link almost immediately. I was the person who supported and encouraged this relationship and I am thrilled, I have to pinch myself that she has found a wonderful amazing man to marry. I come from a family with many IR marriages ,about 30%), and some of these are women who are married to WM. My grandmother was engaged to a white British colonial officer as far back as the 30’s. and my 70 year old aunty has been happily married to a French man for over 40 years. We have almost every race in my very colorful and large extended family. My best friend is married to a WM too. Goodness, I dated a German boy and a British boy too. What would or could I have against IR relationships? I start to sound very defensive now like those people who say, I’m not racist, I have many black friends. However, I am trying to be as honest and as clear as I can be. I know that my sister has had some difficulties being in a mixed IR, nothing overt, but more like things like airhostesses treating her BF better on flights and ignoring her till they realised that she was with him, or a shop calling security on her when she tried to use his credit card. The assumption being that she had stolen it. I thought that this site might give her some insights on how to navigate these things. You are probaly right; it is easier in Europe and in Africa. I do not know many “only BM only sistas’! The concept of a black woman being with a man of another race is not a new concept and is not an epiphany to me. It does not cause many raised eyebrows amongst me or my peers. I say my peers because I have to be mindful and remember that I can only speak for the people who are culturally, socio-economically, etc from the same sphere as I am in Africa. I have to REITERATE, I believe that every woman has the right and freedom to find love and companionship anywhere that she choses, that I found it with a BM is incidental

Anonymous said...

And to everyone who takes offence to me lumping everyone BLACK as “we” and not taking into cognizance the fact that hegemony exists, what can I say? In Nigeria alone, there are over 130 languages. It is just for expedience really!!! But then if most of the rapes, violence from Detroit to J’Burg, Soweto to Lusaka are being committed predominantly by BM then it does seem that we have a common problem. I think that really all my waffling in my earlier posts was just to say that there is a problem in the BLACK community ,like you all don’t know that anyway, and we need to fix it. Not BW alone. I appreciate that this blog exists for a different purpose and that it was probably the wrong avenue and time to bring up this topic. I guess this might have been what led to the misunderstanding.

Because this blog addresses genuine concerns for women in IR relationships, the good, the bad and the ugly, it is gamine to also note the problems that can arise in these relationships. The caution that I said was that some women expect that they marry non-black men and sometimes go in expecting saints. It is a post-colonial mentality that some of us still have of the upstanding upright WM to some African women. Does that mean that WW stop marrying WM or African women stop marrying African men, etc. No, but it is about taking a good look at the person first and not being blinded by colour. I live in an expat community overseas where most of the BW here are married to WM, it has been a learning experience for me and I have seen some of this too.

I would NEVER encourage a woman to stay with a man who did not respect her, was in any way abusive to her, did not honour her and was not committed to her. I have found a man who does all this for me, regardless of his race. If he were abusive, unkind, I would not stay with him black or not and I DO NOT expect any woman any where to stay with a man who was like that to her and endure it. I pride myself on being too worldly, sophisticated and liberated for that kind of subversive thinking. I celebrate the BW which is how I discovered your site. We all deserve to be treated with dignity and kindness. PS. If anyone wants any good advise on how to snag a good white or asian man, I’m sure I probably could be a veritable source of information.

Anonymous said...

I was reluctant to post, this is the first time I have ever posted a comment on any website, even on the aggravating neo-nazi, prowhite sites because what good does it do me really??? I had just had a difficult day dealing with some rather negative racists incidence directed at my son and another friend and I just felt so discouraged. I wanted to, needed to believe that we are inherently good. When I made reference to people being entrenched in their positions, it was a polite take on the degree of vehemence and vitriol that I had seen on the part of some of the commentators earlier on this post especially at comments that they chose not to understand or did not accept.

After reading the responding comments, I realized that I myself have been guilty of some naiveté or not understanding the true depth of the problem with the paucity of “real men” in the AA community and for this a heartfelt apology. I have since then taken some time to educate myself and looked at some other sites and blogs too. I am sorry that it has come across that I have underplayed this problem. Definitely not my intensions to be dismissive or insensitive to other people’s problems. Mea Culpa. Incidentally, the site BLACK WOMAN BLOW YOUR TRUMPET had a riveting feature on black women and their lack of expectations of chivalry, etc. This ties in with my comment earlier on BW learning to realise yes!! They are indeed worthy of chivalry.

@ Binta, really I have scutinised my immediate family and then my extended family which by African standards can be very large and I come up with 2 uncles that fit the mold of the dysfunctional BM. But I’d rather just call them dysfunctional males because those two, I suspect would have been dysfunctional whatever race they were!!! I’m sure there are more that exist but if I’m thinking about them this hard…….I agree with you that you have to solve a problem by calling it it’s name. So what is wrong with the BM? Genetics? What is it? And what is the solution? How can we find a solution? Is there no solution? Are they really a lost cause? Wrong blog, wrong question, I suppose. No catfights intended. Neither am I discouraging any women who come here, at all so please do not get me wrong.

This brings me to the comment that provoked so much disdain. When I say that “we” need to do something, I did not refer to the BW but the AA and the black community as a whole. BW cannot steer men. I feel discouraged and impotent that things are so bad. One of the main reasons I have started going to African and black blogs is to give me a sense that there is some sanity in the community and to give me HOPE. No, it is not a BW’s single responsibility and when I say do not give up hope on them, I do not mean that we must marry them and remain with them. I volunteered with a religious international agency run by women and one of the things that we did was offer evening classes to young boys in very poor areas of Lagos and leadership programmes to help to build their self-worth and esteem. And no, they were not my brothers, sons, nephews or even grandsons. Tongue in cheek here. I did not mean that one has to be proverbially joined at the hip to BM to not give up hope. That was not what I meant. There are women’s groups in S.Leone and Liberia who are working with ex-child soldiers to help them “come back” to the society. I also appreciate that there are many AA in America, BW too trying to “stem the tide”.

Anonymous said...

@ Anon, I talked about assumptions that people make when you are BLACK. I am African and I realise that Africa has its own problems. But I was neither rude nor disrespectful to anyone. I am trying in my own way to clean up my own backyard. I have worked in poverty reduction programmes that look at ways of developing pro-poor initiatives both in rural areas and in the cities. I have helped to bring water to villages and electricity. I am a public health physician/epidemiologist and I have worked very hard in my corner of the globe. But what has my being from Africa got to do with it? Does it invalidate my opinions? These are those assumptions that we all make, yet again. You do not know what part of Africa I am from, Morocco, Egypt, SA, Senegal, Cape Verde????? But the comment was flippant, dismissive and irrational. You do not know anything about my aspirations, how I have tried to develop myself as a person, my goals, my lived experience, noting!! I am just an African who is not entitled to any opinions- I have been reduced to a function of my need I say "apocalyptic" continent of origin. If I remember correctly, I talked about these kinds of assumptions in my earlier comment and how hard they are to escape. Thank you for reminding me!!

And yes, I want my son to go back home – only black child in his school, he is super confident but …I have a son I need to mold to become a good BM and he needs to be comfortable in his blackness or no BW will ever do for him.

Well, that’s all (finally and good riddance you probably all say) - by the by I must make haste, I have a whole continent to go make right.!!!!

Finally, I believe that this blog should be a celebration. Even when people say things you don't agree with, educate them gently, let them see your viewpoint in a graceful way. We have such different experiences in life and are coming from such different places, shouting people down, being acerbic, insulting sardonic and disdainful is.....well, just plain awful and nasty and diminishes from a blog that is trying to celebrate hope and love.

Anonymous said...

@ Binta,

I don't hang out with rappers or football stars so cannot speak for them - they are not my class nor do I have anything in common with them. I would not fancy, date or marry most of them because we simply do not have anything in common and do not speak the same language. My family would say give us the nice WM, Asian any day any time before they ever advocated most of those rappers, gold tooth wearing boys and football players. It would send my mum to an early grave!!! So the WW are welcome to them because they of no use to you or me!!! We really do not need BM like that thank you. Of course I see those, but like I said, they are not in my family nor are they in my immediate circle of friends or people that I associate with. I have WM friends that are jerks and I have BM friends and family that are jerks too. But the really really, dysfunctional, very very very very few.

I think that I just needed to hear Oshun's comments that AA/BM does not equate negative. That has been very reassuring for me, I guess that may have been at the root of my disquiet. The suggestion that BM equated negative. It is now 4am in the morning and I have spent way tooo loong on this. It has been a very interesting experience for me though. A learning curve on how easily one can be misunderstood and misinterpreted.

Anonymous said...

"Funnily enough, they never informed us what bm’s responsibility to bw was"

You know what, you're right! I never have heard in my whole 52 years what BM's responsibilities to BW are but I hear what BW's responsibilities to BM are ad nauseum.

BM are being treated like big irresponsible babies and that alone is doing the an extreme disservice.

Harmony said...

I'm sorry, but I needed to state this because I am so angry right now with these DBR creatures.

I just got back from reading wwbm.com and as I read some of the posts, these were so hateful. One poster in particular named Karmacoma is the most hateful bm I've came across. He ALWAYS finds a way to mention black women even though the site is about ww/bm. Those guys are evil racist mysogynists.

And the white women on there clearly love their hatefulness.

And the bm are extremely hypocritical. One post claimed that WW did not harm the black community to the extent WM did and FLAT-OUT STATED that IR between bw/wm should hurt more because WM raped black women during slavery. How dare this ignoramus equate consensual relationships with PAST rape. And online, I've been encountering bm sating that WW are less racist, etc. than white men.

Here's the post:

And they were by white men during and after slavery. So if she wants to
go there then wouldnt the kind of relationships she would "Wince"
about is black women with white men. You would think due to that kind of history it would hurt african americans more if it was a white man and a black woman, because white women went against the white man and used to sleep
with the slaves... White women does not have a foul history of being abusive and ignorant towards black men OR WOMEN! The fact of the matter it is white men. It was the the white man who enslaved our people, it was the white man who whipped our men and raped our women.
--------
And this one black boy(I refuse to call these-creatures-men) had the NERVE to state this mess:
Yeah. Eminem. After all the years of what clearly Black folk and in particular Black Men had invented, the White establishment decided that the best thing that they could think to do was to give a fellow White person the first Oscar for Hip Hop.

Now, that I've said all that, let me point out the superiority of the African American male that appears to be in short supply in this particular thread. There were no complaints from the African American community. Complaints generally come from African American Women. Black Men do complain, but they complain about real shit. Now that that's said, let me say this: Black Men knew that in their heart of hearts that the Oscars made themselves look ridiculous and racist. So they didn't have to say a word.

That's how intelligent Black Men are. Now, let me also put this out there too: Eminem did not show up. Eminem did not accept the award. Why? Because he knew it was bullshit. He knew that he did not earn the first Hip Hop award. He knew that he was not going to be used by the White establishment. Now that is quality. Coming from both Black Men and White Men working in the same industry. No fault, Hip Hop can continue on as planned.
Just a quick side-note: The next year, the Oscars gave an award to 3-6 Mafia. THEN the Black Women complained. Let me say it again: THEN the Black Women complained. They said the song was too degrading, and this that and the third. But not one solitary peep when the White Man won the first award given to a Hip Hop artist. Not one solitary peep from the African American female population. And here some of you Brothers are jumping over yourselves to defend BW in their EPIC FAIL.

Black females are trying to get ahead of the scandal. Don't use their rhetoric, it's stupid.
-------------

And from the few posts I read from him, he clearly has hatred against black women from whatever reason.

BW definitely need to stop supporting BM and should stop dating them exclusively.And for those bw still willing to include them in you dating pool, look outside of America and Europe for bm. Western BM are conquered.

JaliliMaster said...

To the anonymous African poster. A blog “troll”, doesn’t mean a “spoil sport”, at least not the way you defined it. I will give you the Cambridge definition of an online troll:


1. someone who leaves an intentionally annoying message on the Internet, in order to get attention or cause trouble

2. a message that someone leaves on the Internet, which is intended to annoy people


As I said in my previous comment, didn’t think you were a troll, but I understand why others did. Whatever your real opinions are, the fact is that you made a comment which had nothing whatsoever to do with the post. So it may not have been your intention, but the fact is that all that happened was that you had an opinion on something that was bothering you, and you decided to come and ‘dump’ those issues on this post, not minding that you were entering a conversation to which you had no interest to contribute.


I understand that you may have been slightly taken aback by some of the replies, but the fact that you ignored the grave circumstances that BW face and started going on about how “we” should, basically, help BM, was your own doing. You may not have meant “we” as in BW, but you are on a BW site. Who else were readers supposed to assume you meant? In my previous comments when I used the word “you” in general, the only “you” I was talking about were BW. Those are who this site is meant for. You may not have meant that BW should sacrifice themselves for ‘the greater good’, but that is as much as what you said. I don’t think people misunderstood your words. They may have misunderstood the intent, but they didn’t misunderstand what you said. The misunderstanding was on your part. You didn’t’ articulate your thoughts exactly as you meant, so people could only take you at face value.

Anonymous said...

"You didn’t’ articulate your thoughts exactly as you meant, so people could only take you at face value."

She said exactly what she meant to say in her first post. She's just trying to backtrack now seeing as her words didn't go over as well -- her having over 3 degrees and one being a medical degree and all -- as she assumed they would.

Binta said...

I completely agree with you, JaliliMaster.

Anon (why don't you pick a name. That's much easier than calling you Anon at 12:14? :D), your message was very clear, it's there for everyone who speaks and understands the english language. I was surprised you were shocked at the responses you got. So from what I read now, (some) of your friends and sister are happily married to WM but you come on a site that is clearly trying to motivate other BW, who are still blinded and holding on to a sinking ship, to try something new (pun intended) and post comments telling every BW that we should stem the tide. I am going to take your last comments for your real intentions although I still don't understand how you could have blatantly sent such (from my understanding) negative comments on a website dedicated to the enhancement of BW. I hereby apologise if I hurt your feelings, that wasn't done on purpose. The whole "our brothers and grandsons, what have WE done wrong and how can we stem the tide" talk rubbed me the wrong way. I have heard it too many times from people who actually don't want BW to progress and explore the world like everybody else.

@Harmony, little tip from me :): STAY AWAY FROM THOSE SITES. See how what those people said hurt and made you angry. Believe me they know some BW lurk there, just like DBRBM and other kind of trolls love visiting this site. I read on some posts before this one that Sara deletes a lot negative comments that attack her posts and readers. I could care less about what they write. One can easily see that the BM is pissed because so many BW are happy with other men who aren't black. He knows the more BW embrace other men, the more power and female support he as a non-WM loses. To be sincere I don't think bringing their trash comments on this site is helpful for the girls and women who are still unsure of IR dating. I hope I don't come off as commanding and telling you what to do, that is clearly not my intention.

ps. I like your name.

Anonymous said...

A few years ago I found myself reading several hilarious examples of Negro male buffoonery from links posted on a forum I used to frequent. The link lead to the ww/bm site and, for a while, anytime I was bored I'd lurk there for a few chuckles.

The child Karmacoma is the President
of the Negro male Black Woman Haters Club on the ww/bm message boards. He's among the smartest (and more vicious) of the buffoons over there: notice how he first set up his little tawdry tale so as to give Negro males an excuse for why they don't fight their own battles (they're too intelligent...they only complain about real sh*t, etc) before lambasting BW for defending their own honor but NOT similarly defending the honor of Negro males! He's under the bizarre delusion that while it's best to remain docile when faced with overt racism (what a punk), if BW are going to complain about the sexism they face, they better make sure to first condemn the racism aimed at Negro males.

Basically, what he's saying is: "Boo-hoo, Mommmy! I'm just a little boy and I'm much too afraid to confront de white man -- please do it for me!"

And the EPIC FAIL award goes to...the Negro male.

NijaG said...

@ Harmony,

I suggest that you and other black women need to stop reading such sites like the one you mentioned. In fact, I think most black women need to avoid majority of black male sites regardless of the topic discussed. Stop engaging, arguing, or trying to reason with them. AVOID, AVOID, AVOID plus IGNORE, IGNORE, IGNORE, them as much as possible online and in real life.

After I came across the BWE/IR sites and read some of the discussions on the growing Anti-BW sentiment that is being spread mainly by BM, I decided to investigate since I seemed to have been out of the loop on what was going on.

BIG MISTAKE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reading or listening to majority of their garbage is just going to damage your psyche and spirit.

Majority of BW need to stop focusing on what BM are saying and doing and focus on themselves and the lives they want to live.

Khadija: another great BWE blogger did a great post on this issue. I think it's a great read and food for thought for those who haven't read it before.


http://sojournerspassport.com/the-more-you-do-this-the-less-desirable-youll-look/

Binta said...

"Today, we see many comedians and ordinary men laughing at the plight of bw. I believe it's because when the jokes first became inappropriate, no one said anything, and now they've grown out of proportion, but the world is so used to laughing at us, it's no longer a big deal...."

I find the whole post very interesting but the last part stuck out the most. Yes it is a critical time for BW but I think it is not too late. I guess women from the 60s decided to stay within the black community because they thought about their future and the future of their children. Too bad BM (not all of course) were busy with other thoughts, like fathering children but not marrying the mothers, commiting crimes etc, you know the list. The most important thing is now to get on with your lives 'cos the damage has been done.

Get in a good shape (if you're not in one, this goes for anorexic and morbidly obese people). It's easy to meet men at fitness clubs (ahem...make sure you get a straight one. I can't really tell whose straight now adays). During power walking, jogging or even cooking classes.

AVOID bad company. People who don't want to further their education although they have the possiblilty to do so, people with bad behaviour, misogynic music and movies, support movies with black women (ahem...I am sooooo pro-Blackfemale children, all children from BW). I can't really explain it but I feel happy and proud of myself as a BW everytime I see Gabrielle Union. I think she is gorgeous, classy and sexy.

Be open and well travelled. I believe the internet is one of the most powerful media resources we have now. So please inform yourselves and try to find out more about other countries, culture, politics, your body and healthy living.

Always make sure the people who give you advice have your best interest at heart. No need going to a pastor that wants you to spend all your valuable time and money on a building instead of doing something more worthwhile with your time. There is absolutely nothing wrong with praying at home or even while driving to work and spending your hard earned money on yourself. Don't forget that some people want you to remain at the bottom with them.

By the way I live in Germany, is there a way we can form a group to support positive BW images. For instance movies, IR books for our children, world wide careers for BW, magazines that focuse on our culture: BW in America, Africa, Europe.... and thoughts that concern only BW (if others find it interesting they can read and watch it too but the whole idea is to focuse on us)?

:) So much to say, so little time :) I hope we get some ideas together because I think the time has come to change the way we are being presented. Sara, Evia and Khadija (check out her new Sojouner Passport site) have set positive examples with their sites. I'm not talking about more blogs, I mean action!!!

Over and Out!

Sophisticatedblkwoman said...

Harmony, that comment you posted from the site you referenced is such a shame. Little do that poster know, white women played a great part in slavery, some even killed bw due to jealousy and repeatedly beat slave women to relieve their frustrations with their husband's desire for the enslaved bw. Also, black men often ended up missing, due to the accusations of white women and a simple stare or look at them from the black man. Black men literally had to hold their heads down when a white women walked by in order to not be accused of whatever. Hence, 'Emmit Till".
A lot of these bm are so ignorant and dumb, it's disgusting and extremely unattractive. I'm so happy I'm not interested in dating them.

Jamdown said...

Harmony said...
"I'm sorry, but I needed to state this because I am so angry right now with these DBR creatures.

I just got back from reading wwbm.com and as I read some of the posts, these were so hateful."

Why would you go to such a website? Why post that nonsense here? This is a Black women empowerment blog. We don't seek out nonsense written by hateful Black men to regurgitate here.

Bellydancer said...

Back to the topic at hand.
Cedric the Entertainer was trying to sound funny about the Tiger Woods situation in Ebony and of course he said something about black women that just set my teeth on edge.
"If Tiger had been dating a black woman she would have got on his damn nerves so bad he wouldn't have cheated with anybody else"
WTF was that about and why are black men concerned about what we think about Tiger Woods after all he is not claiming black folks and never has.
Most of the time I like Cedric but I was like damn so if a sister had been dating him we would have worried his nerves or what.

JaliliMaster said...

To Harmony,


I really don't know what you expect any of us to do with what you just posted. First of all, you went on a site called ww/bm, so how does that include you. How is anything on that site any of your or our business? You chose to go to a site that clearly stated (from the name you posted) that it is for ww/bm, got offended reading whatever you saw there, then you bring whatever drivel you read to this site so that the rest of us can join in your upset with you. The fact is that you went to whatever site it is that you went to with the sole aim of getting upset.

Now you want us to ignore talking about BW issues and start talking about whatever nonsense some BM said on some site DEVOTED to ww and bm. OH PLEASE!!!


The same way it is only BM and BW business to be on a site devoted to BM and BW, it is only WM and AW business to be on a site devoted to WM and AW, it is only BW and WM/HM/AM business to be on a site devoted to said couplings. If you, under your own volition, choose to type into google/some other serach engine or your web browser for some site that you know does not include you, then you have yourself to blame for getting upset.

That is the same reason I have the opinion that BM should not be allowed to post on this site (or other BWIR sites), even if they are not making negative comments. Whatever we do on this site is none of their business. I suggest you get the same clue in reference to those sites, whether it is "bm/ww", "bm/hw", "bm/aw", "bm/anything but black women"!!!

Foxycleopatra said...

@Harmony March 30, 2010 2:41 PM,

My question is for you. What are you doing on that site in the first place? I assume wwbm stands for white women black men right? Since it quite obviuosly angers you so much to see any misogynistic/anit-bw thing they write, how about you stay away from such sites and visit those that do uplift you. Since u obviuosly knew the kind of things u were going to see there, y did u go back? Are u a sucker for punishment or something?

I cannot wait for the day when black women en masse stop being bothered and feeling hurt when they are attacked by black men. Unfortunately, that day seems to be very far away. Personally, I couldnt even possibly care less about visiting such a site because lets be honest, what does it have to do with me?


Foxycleopatra

Anonymous said...

Here is a dating site that is different- Shaadi.com

Although there are alot of American men on the site now, still there are many other race men who are educated and looking for someone to date/marry.

a.

Anonymous said...

Cedric is not funny and he is too.
He is absolutely too buffoonish.

a.

JaliliMaster said...

"Here is a dating site that is different- Shaadi.com

Although there are alot of American men on the site now, still there are many other race men who are educated and looking for someone to date/marry."



From the name, that seems to be a site for southern Asian couplings. Secondly, AA women are making a grave mistake with this whole mantra of American men this, American men that, etc. You should not keep on encouraging women to be primarily interested in non-American men, especially when these women live in America. Non-American women who are Asian and Black don't seem to have any difficulty going to America and finding husbands.

This whole thing where AA women talk about European men 'loving' BW, I don't know what gave them that impression. White British men who are married to BW are married to Black British women, whether they are of Caribbean or African origin. Spaniards married to BW are married to BW in Spain. The same applies to other European countries These women did something different to what AA women did, and they benefit from it. The issue here is not European men. If that was the case, when these same non-American BW go to America, how come they are still able to get these American men that AA women say don’t date BW. I have already said that the number of IR married Black African women in America is higher than the number of IR married Black African men. AA women will only have themselves to blame when in future, the men around them who are interested in dating/marrying BW exclusively go for the foreign ones. When you keep on rejecting these men because you refuse to see that the real reasons they are not dating you, while at the same time, these BW from other countries are more than happy to be with them, what will you do then?

For AA women, American men represent the largest pool of men to provide long term happiness. It is a rather unwise decision to be under the very false assumption that these men wouldn’t date you.

____________________________________

As for Cedric, he is a buffoon. I am sure there are many BW who would hear what he said and actually take it as a compliment, not realising that his real intention was to insult. Here’s why:


“"If Tiger had been dating a black woman she would have got on his damn nerves so bad he wouldn't have cheated with anybody else"

The “he wouldn’t have cheated with anybody else” part was meant to say to BW, see, I mean well, after all, he would have stayed faithful if she was Black. As a result, you’d ignore the earlier part of this buffoons comment where her labelled all BW as annoying people that always get on your nerves.

Anonymous said...

@ JaliliMaster,????
I agree American men are readily available. Yes, African woman do not share the on going blk./wht. thing that is going on in America.

My co-worker has lived in America nearly 30 years and she will at a blink of an eye play the I am an Nigerian card..."Oh, I do not understand, I am not from your country". Lucky her. I wish I could play that I am not from America card.


Shaadi have many men of different nationalities on their site and that includes American men. lol, even bm are going there. Who is to say an AA woman would not be successful in locating a mate?

I say, "Get in where you fit in."

It is not my place to tell a woman where she should fit in. Ladies go and find that "glove" that fits you.

Yes, there are men of other races who would prefer an AA woman. Yes, an AA woman! My neighbor dates a w/detective and he is cute.

Truth be told I was always surprised by those African women who married European men.
Why? We are all familiar with the history of Africa being envaded by other race countries. I say, "Good for the African women who were abled to ignore their country's past history." I remember talking with this Nigerian man about African women marrying out and he chaulked that up to European men needing to stay in the country and therefore they marry African woman. Hey, he said it not me.

Anyway, please lets not go back and forth with comments. I respect your comments as I would like for you to respect my comments.

Happy Easter.

A.

Foxycleopatra said...

Binta said:
"I can't really explain it but I feel happy and proud of myself as a BW everytime I see Gabrielle Union. I think she is gorgeous, classy and sexy."


I said:
Haha! I very much understand how u feel. I also used to feel very happy when I saw Gab Union. I use to love her as an actress but within the past year or so, she has been getting on my nerves. From her silly movie choices to her dating Dwayne Wade while he was still legally married. I am so dissapointed that she didnt take advantage of the 'Bring it On' fame but instead decided to still rely on black male hollywood directors. I still love her though but I feel quite dissapointed with her. I seem to have a soft spot for her as an actress bcos a lot of stuff that would piss me off about other black actresses, I tend to brush of with Gab Union, I dont know why. I just think she is too fab! By the way, do u know that she is 37 (2.5 yrs short of 40)! She could still play a college....and possibly high scholl student!!! Black dont crack!LOL.

Other actresses that really make me smile are:

1. Kerry Washington: Beautiful, classy elegant, doesnt take on stereotypical roles.

2. Zoe Saldana: Absolutely gorgeous, does not limit herself to stupid black roles and has even been described as the 'next go-to action hero actress'.

3. Keke Palmer: Very pretty and cute. Smart, down to earth, carries herself well, doesnt use her young age as an excuse to act like an idiot ( a la Lindsay Lohans). Still early in her career but she seems to have good people (close family, good agent) looking out for her.

4. Naomie Harris: Smart, stunning, elegant, educated. Makes sensible film role choices.

5. Monique Coleman: Smart, pretty, good head on her shoulders. She is the main black girl from high school musical (although she is actually 29 lol!). She said she wanted the role of the smartest kid in school and was told no bcos she was black but then thought to herself "wait a minute, WHY can't the smartest kid in school be a black girl???" and thankfully, she got the high school musical role in the end. She has even written, produced and starred in her own well-acclaimed play.


I'm just happy that these black actresses are willing and self-confident enough to compete with every body (as opposed to only other black actresses) by not limiting themselves to the usual stereotypical black female roles and images we see day in day out.

That's why I make sure to support them.

Foxycleopatra said...

Binta said:

"By the way I live in Germany, is there a way we can form a group to support positive BW images. For instance movies, IR books for our children, world wide careers for BW, magazines that focuse on our culture: BW in America, Africa, Europe.... and thoughts that concern only BW (if others find it interesting they can read and watch it too but the whole idea is to focuse on us)?"


I said:
I'm liking this idea. It has been raised on several other blogs as well. If u look round, u will actually find several sites that organise meet ups etc. Unfortunately, due to dbr internet Ikes, safety is a serious issue as some of these dbr males actually stake out these venues....yes I know...its pathetic. As for stuff like careers, books etc, with the increasing number of black female authors actually giving positive messages to black women, I think it will take off on its own but it is left for us to support these women. Personally, I dont care what part of the world a bw comes from or lives in and i dont care what her ethnicity is. If her message/work helps to uplift bw, then I'm all for it. Seeing as u live in Germany, there are some sites for bw in europe. One was set up by an ir married AA woman who is married to a white American man but then relocated to a country in europe (cant remeber which) bcos of his job. Ive seen another one that was set up by a black dutch woman. I was surprised but very happy to see that bw in europe are also geting on the tide and supporting each other.

As for careers, my goodness, u are one smart and resourceful woman. Lol, nice to know that there are other bw who are also interested in helping other bw in terms of having fullfilling careers. This one could be tricky bcos depending on how u go about it, it could end up coming across as racist. I am open to ideas on this particular issues. Do u have any. The only way I can do it right now is giving info to other bw I know in terms of jobs and supporting each other at work but I still think there are more ways eg setting up organisations for career black women and career-minded younger black women etc. Pls I know that I could have written this beter but I was typing as they came to my head so apologies if my comment seem a bit muddles up.


By the way Binta, are u by any chance Hausa?

Foxycleopatra said...

Re Cedric the so-called entertainer:

There are going to be stupid bw who will read that nonsense and somehow, feel proud about it. Basically, he is implying that bw are irritating, always get on their partners nerves! I see these type of idiotic males for what they are. When will bw wake up?

It is like any chance some negroes have to insult bw, they will take it. What the heck do bw have to do with a cablinasian man and a white woman? Where exactly do bw come into the equation?

Some bw will not realise that this tool is implying that bw are so undesirable. he has the audacity to say such nonsense in a black centred magazine.

I will be adding this douchebag to my list of 'the boycotted'.....oh actually, he was already on it! NEXT!!

NijaG said...

For AA women, American men represent the largest pool of men to provide long term happiness. It is a rather unwise decision to be under the very false assumption that these men wouldn’t date you.

I have to agree with Jalili's, previous post. The easiest and most accessible pool of non-AA men are in your own backyard.

Nothing wrong with dating/marrying non-American men, but that would also come with it's own set of unique problems due to various factors.

It's much easier for most non-Americans to adapt to American culture than the other way round.

Harmony said...

For those telling me to say away from those sites, thanks.

Actually I do stay away from all of those sites, but I went to that one to...sort of prove to myself that this is what most bm think of black women. I just wasn't expecting the blatant lies. And what I found especially odd was the black female poster. I was just thinking, why register on a site not meant for you and engage creatures who hate you??

Harmony said...

To be sincere I don't think bringing their trash comments on this site is helpful for the girls and women who are still unsure of IR dating. I hope I don't come off as commanding and telling you what to do, that is clearly not my intention.

ps. I like your name.
-------------------------
I actually felt bad about posting those posts. I was really upset and I just needed to vent. And no, you're not coming off as commanding,lol.

Sara, you may remove that comment if you like.

Oh and you're welcome.:)

Harmony said...

@ FoxyCleopatra
How the heck am I a sucker for punishment? Talk about personal attacks. Anyhoo...

@ Jalilimaster
Believe what you want to believe. I'm not engaging with you over what YOU called drivel.

@Jamdown
Same thing as I stated to Jalilimaster.

News Hawk said...

Just as an FYI, MSNBC just posted a piece called "Will Sidibe’s size weigh down her acting career?"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36136266/ns/entertainment-celebrities/

The writer refers to her in the article as "big" and "overweight", not obese, or, morbidly obese.

The remarks from Howard Stern and remarks from Fat Acceptance advocate groups are noted in the piece as well.

NijaG said...

I remember talking with this Nigerian man about African women marrying out and he chaulked that up to European men needing to stay in the country and therefore they marry African woman. Hey, he said it not me.

I personally don't know what that Nigerian man was smoking, but as a Nigerian myself, most WM and non-blk men don't need to marry any Nigerian/African woman to work/live in 99% of African countries.

Majority are there for a certain period of time working for Multi-national companies, embassies and NGO's. They usually have their own communities and don't integrate as much.

Now if he was talking about many Nigerian/African men using European/American and other foreign women to get residency/citizenship status to stay/work in those countries then that's another issue all together which is more accurate than what he was saying.

NijaG said...

@ Anon who said:

Truth be told I was always surprised by those African women who married European men.
Why? We are all familiar with the history of Africa being envaded by other race countries. I say, "Good for the African women who were abled to ignore their country's past history."



Hmmm..... In re-reading your comments, they come across as very suspect to me. It seems more like what a BM or very BM identified BW would say.


I responded to a portion of what you wrote in a previous post, but I'm not going to bother getting into differences of why the AA historical experience and that of Africa produces some different types of interaction and responses to white folks in general.

Anonymous said...

Ladies if you do not want to deal with men from other countries, then please do not join any online dating service. The majority of online dating services service men and women from all over the world.

Peace

Anonymous said...

Howard Stern is simply low life trash. His opinion means nothing.

a.

ak said...

Hi Foxycleopatra you talekd about Kirstie Alley and Ricki Lake (who was in the first Hairspray) etc. and you daid that ww are allowed to be fat or obese while bw are not and....that's not true exactly.

I've heard larger ww complain about being unrepresented or misrepresented in the media and it's true enough as the obese ww usually play the funny lady (Rosie O'Donnell, the fat lady who never dates, forgotten ww, and sometimes ww get cast as fat and evil.

BUT a major difference is that fat or obese ww don't get the coonery/buffoonery thrown at them by crossdressers and such; the only one I can think of was Divine in the John Waters fils and John Travolta in the new Hairspray. WW still have their dignity kept because of the level of protection of their respect and their images and they also have feminism EVEN if they are obese.

But do black women EVER speak out and stick up for themselves on the behalf of themselves, their much needed respect, femininity, and protection? No. Otherwise they would have said no to the Bs and Hs in hip hop/rap and stuck by that decision! BW have let everybody especially other black people disrespect them for too long.

Anonymous said...

NijaG..."I responded to a portion of what you wrote in a previous post, but I'm not going to bother getting into differences of why the AA historical experience and that of Africa produces some different types of interaction and responses to white folks in general."

lol, I am interested and I am not a guy.

a.

Binta said...

@Foxycleopatra

I actually posted a very long response about a week ago but I guess it was accidentally deleted. I can't remember all I wrote so I am going to make this short; yes I am hausa and thanks for answering.

Foxycleopatra said...

Look I really don't want to get into all this againg cos to be honest, i'm not going to say anything new.


You said:
"Hi Foxycleopatra you talekd about Kirstie Alley and Ricki Lake (who was in the first Hairspray) etc. and you daid that ww are allowed to be fat or obese while bw are not and....that's not true exactly."


I said:
Ummm..... actually that is the OPPOSITE of what I said so u may want to re-read whatever comment it is that u are referring to bcos I can say that we actually agree. No other race/ethnicity of woman has much better representation in hollywood for the fat/bigger ones among them than fat black women.

--------------------------------
You said:
"BUT a major difference is that fat or obese ww don't get the coonery/buffoonery thrown at them by crossdressers and such; the only one I can think of was Divine in the John Waters fils and John Travolta in the new Hairspray. WW still have their dignity kept because of the level of protection of their respect and their images and they also have feminism EVEN if they are obese.

But do black women EVER speak out and stick up for themselves on the behalf of themselves, their much needed respect, femininity, and protection? No. Otherwise they would have said no to the Bs and Hs in hip hop/rap and stuck by that decision! BW have let everybody especially other black people disrespect them for too long."


I said:
Funnily enough, I actually agree with you. Lets keep it real here, in America, 80% of black women fall under the category of 'overweight' (ofcourse that is using it as a medical term cos if u take body shape etc into account, I believe that number may actually decrease.....but to no less than 70-75%), and of those 80%, more than half (i.e. 50% of all black women) are obese. That means that only 20% of black women are actually of a normal healthy weight (assuming that none of these 20% are anorexic ec). So therefore, degradation/mockery of fat black women because they are...well fat and black is something that actually affects the majority of black women. So therefore, when u see all these images that are meant to be 'cooning-up' fat black women, wouldnt u expect that most black women (or atleast the ones who represent that image) may have an issue with it? When I used to see slimmer black women supporting such images that were degrading towards bigger black women, I used to think it was in a 'lets all make fun of the fat (black) girl' kind of way and it used to get me irritated. However, when I observed bigger black women, they too were supporting these images. You complain about Tyler Perry, well black women are his main base and yet they are the ones who he debases! When I see bigger black women supporting all these kinds of nonsense, I'm like 'wait a minute, can't u see that u r the butt of the joke?'. Then they will accuse me of 'hating'. It is as if some bigger black women are willing to accept cow-crap-soaked-peanuts just to get represented. I was talking with a few black women a while back and they said 'well it is better than not having any representation at all. we have to start from somewhere'. How can one complain about an entity that degrades them when the one in question is supporting that entity???