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Black women are getting degrees at 3x the rate of bm. They are buying houses, starting businesses, as well as seeking mates in the upper echelons of society.
Lets examine other areas in which we can expedite and exploit other avenues of social mobilization available to us....
These are small but profound steps up the ladder of social dominance....
Intelligent, upwardly mobile bw+ powerful well connected wm= SOCIAL DOMINANCE!
This lesson on social elevation is geared toward all the women who want more than to escape the black enclaves. If you are such a woman, and you want to engage, mate, and marry into the highest tiers of society- pay careful attention to the following advice.Many women think social mobility = a college degree, but this is just a minuscule segment of social climbing. You can go so much higher. This is entirely possible with adequate instruction, and ongoing support. Black women, in fact, MUST be socialized, and taught to reach the highest pinnacles of their respective fields, and become bastions of high society. Why? Because there are innumerable benefits that avail themselves to participants, for each ascending tier one reaches in life. Beginning with, but not limited to:
1. Access to the best Institutions of higher learning available
along with the accompanying respect,long term prospects, career boosting criteria, and critical thinking skills, these institutions are able to afford to one's life. The ability to offer one's progeny or offspring the best education money can buy.
2. Status and clout-over generations...
These intangibles can open doors not just for oneself, but for one's future generations, thereby being able to effect, influence, and 'exert' aid to one's offspring long after you have departed this life. Surely, you've all heard many wealthy ppl say things such as: "Yes, well our grandfather started that company when he was just a poor immigrant many years ago, and our family has kept it going for over 50 years...."
3. Having a database of contacts and connections
These are the type of connections that ppl in the lower tiers can only dream of. The truth is contacts =contracts! Many of the most successful, and well connected people in the world have been carefully mentored and 'guided' to the top.
4.Sophistication, Savvy, and social conditioning indigent to the long-term wealthy
The class savvy, confidence, and savour fair that comes from being well-traveled, and able to move among differing types of people with poise and comfort. The social graces, that scream class and decorum before one opens one's mouth. It becomes almost tangible with time, and enables one's to be treated with a higher degree of respect and deferment.
5.Ease and comfort with wealth, and privilege
The ability to be relaxed, unstressed, and comfortable with large amounts of wealth, and the ability (that is wealth 101 for many rich) to make wealth grow and to use wealth as the preamble to greater wealth and not to squander 15,000 on a pair of ridiculously ostentatious rims!!! No cultured, eloquent, sophisticated upper crust person would do this ever! Even a middle class person lacking extenuating resources, but having a modicum of common sense, would not engage in such foolishness.
6. Class and comfort-of course.
One of the primary goals of social climbing is so that one can have a life of leisure, as well as one of contribution. Being able to contribute to one's community, church, schools, etc is quite soul-as well as ego-fulfilling. Yet, being able to raise one's children in relative comfort, in a luxurious, pampered, and unstressed environment is the most profound, and desirable element of all. We all want to give our children better. Social climbing in a highly concentrated, and substantive manner, allows us to exceed the minor goal of giving our children better-we can give them the best!!
It is extremely imperative for bw to be socially mobile, much more so than others, lest they be inadvertently shuffled to the bottom. Too many of you ladies see wealth as unattainable, and beyond the scope of your grasp. In an age where black women are marrying Princes (Prince Maximilian and Angela Brown), Counts (Count Ferdinand, and wife Mary) or simply setting their sights on mega rich celebrities/and or businessmen (Wolfgang Puck, Boris Becker, Luc Bessom, Peter Norton, etc. This could not be further from the truth! The truth is that anyone who undertakes serious work, dedication and diurnal conditioning, can position themselves to reach higher echelons. Even if you never reach the moon, you can certainly reach the stars, and be much higher than you originally started on your journey. Many black women in this day and age are beginning to understand this theory inherently. This is why more and more black women are severely limiting this time in black enclaves, and amongst those with an internally impoverished mindset. More and more bw are grabbing at the chances availing themselves to partake in gifts of social mobility, and betterment. More women seem to intrinsically understand that life is NEVER stagnant, either you are growing or heading for your imminent demise.
How the black man -dynamic comes into play....
This is why many bm will try to grab onto the skirts of the mobile bw. You will see this dynamic play out again and again as a soon to be, college graduate gets pregnant by some around -the- way, LOSER. The loser set his sights on her from the start. He could have just as easily gone after a woman on his level, who had no aspirations of betterment, but he CHOSE to go after the aspiring woman and stagnate her progress. This selfish act serves a dual purpose. Most bm know (even if they won't admit it) that they are slowly becoming extinct. They must latch onto a host body (like any parasite) in order to survive. They have no plans in play for their own survival (as any reasonable man would) so they use bw as a lifeline. As more and more bw try to 'shake them off,' and move on to better lives. They grow more resentful- angry, defiant, and desperate. They cannot allow her to discard them! Their lives are intrinsically bound to her, for she has the majority of the wealth, education, businesses, houses, contacts, and other resources they need in order to survive. This is why they would rather she be annihilated than happily cavorting off into the sunset with an equally mobile white man. And this is why they go after the up and coming college student instead of shenaynay. It serves a dual purpose, if she is able to navigate the treacherous landscape of academic study and coursework, she'll become an asset which can be used at their disposal, for discretionary income, social connection/contacts, sexual gratification etc. If she is able to prosper despite the 200 lb weight hanging off her neck, than they can coast along on her back and vicariously 'achieve' and live the good life. But if she falters, stumbles, and is unable to remain upright, then they can easily eject themselves from her back to her head and 'stomp' her further into the ground. This in effect, vastly increases the likelihood of her never getting up. The parasite has now done his job, and can now jump off, and look for fresh prey. Either way this is soul satisfying for him, because her ambition is a constant irritant to him, since it amplifies the lack of his own. If you think I'm lying about this, take note of the alarming amount of young bw college students dumped by their predator -boyfriends, shortly after becoming pregnant, and having their academic careers derailed. This is parasitic behavior in action. Did you think it was a mere coincidence, that all these once-promising career women have been mysteriously turned into struggling baby-mama's, and that now they are, (gasp!) all alone?
Black women if you wish to be socially mobile (and you should) -your first order of the day is to avoid lower tiered men like the plague!!! ESPECIALLY IN THE BLK ENCLAVES!!!
I'm aware this may sound harsh, but it is EXTREMELY difficult to make it up a hill with a 200 lb weight around your neck!
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This lesson begins a series of instructions, and mentoring for bw who want, need, or must socially elevate their lives. These posts will be stuck in under regular posts for those who need them. Many bw do not understand many concepts in life which if understood, could serve to add to, and better their lives in countless ways. There are so many misconceptions about class and status and betterment, that I really feel the need to clear some ambiguous theories up. First of all, bw need to understand that if you want to move up-you MUST encounter, engage with, and accompany those who are already up! In other words, drastically limit your time with losers if you are trying to be a winner. And certainly limit your time with the perpetually indigent if you are trying to be rich! I was reading another BWE blogger the other day (no one from sidebar) and while I was blown away by her level of critical thinking, and analysis, (as well as the fact that she's an incredible writer) I was put off by her myopic views concerning Upper class individuals. She's obviously under the impression that the upper class is a closed back room in which very few individuals , regardless of personal resources, ie wealth, education, upbringing, etc, can enter. She insinuated that the comment calling Michelle Obama a ghetto girl- because she grew up in a working class environment- had merit. She did not explicitly state this, but I (strongly) inferred this from the text of her words. I would like to discuss why I feel that this label is 100% erroneous, and why (in many circles) the first lady would most certainly qualify as a member of the upper crust. First of all the first lady exudes class from her pores, second she is extremely intelligent, well spoken, and sagacious. Although, I do understand that these qualities are irrelevant to a certain segment of upper class elitists, but what this author, as well as others, fail to understand is that there are diverging tides of upper class. I feel that most highly leveraged thinkers can discern that ghetto people ( I hate this term) and hard working, under-class people are two very different demographics. I would also go so far as to add that poor and ghetto are not mutually exclusive. There are many good, decent people who lack monetary resources. Just as there are people who are extremely financially solvent, yet are completely morally bankrupt! I'm sure the very wealthy would agree, but lets talk about the issues that are far more substantive.
Pay attention ladies, because these lessons will be essential if you intend to move up into the higher echelons of society, or look for a mate in these privileged quarters. First of all know that there are about 14 layers of class, not 2 or 3.
I will start with the first 4.
1. Wealth
-Now this is subjective, but usually starts with around a quarter of a million dollars and up. Wealth is NOT interchangeable with class-it is merely one level of class. This is why most wealthy celebrities would still NOT be considered upper class.
2. Lineage -think LINE through TIME.
When you hear the UCL's talk about lineage they are usually referring to the family line of money, and or status. How long has your family had money? Old money usually refers to money in the family for at least 100 years! This is why many of the UCL's who toot their nose at the nuveau riche are not as upper class as they think they are! Many of the black elite have money only 2-3 generations deep. Now perhaps my math is off, but doesn't a generation = 20 years? This means that many of the ppl tooting up their noses at other bp, would have legitimate 'old money' tooting up their noses at them! Also, if you have no money in this generation yet you are related to royalty-then you still have a degree of lineage ( this is referred to as: reflected glory)
The only way to get lineage if you don't have it is to marry it, or be adopted into a lineage family. This is why Elton John paid a member of a royal family to adopt him (although he was already grown) so that he would have access to the lineage of this family, as well as being able to take the title of Sir Elton John!
3. Memberships
Memberships can be quite exclusive, as I'm sure you've all noticed. The exclusivity of memberships serve a dual purpose. One, it avails people of similar educational, community standing, and/or monetarily leveraged backgrounds to band together. It enables them to make, benefit from, and enjoy the intimate connections with like mannered, similarly bred, and often class-conscious individuals. These connections will serve them through life, and benefit not only them, but undoubtedly their offspring as well. And two, it restricts the access of less resourced, and lower tiered, individuals from being able to ingratiate themselves into these exclusive domains. Some memberships will be closed to you eternally unless you have a family member who has/had a membership. Some will be closed by the very nature of their exclusivity, or because you must be sponsored by a certain number of the other members. Yet surprisingly, many of these clubs are not as exclusive as most people think they are IF you make friends with well connected individuals, and/or have other similar lines of class, breeding, educational, or community standing (regardless of reason) and are accepted in. ..
4. Education
The last one we'll cover today is the layer of education. Whether you went to college on an academic scholarship, or your family paid is irrelevant in this instance. Academic achievement very highly regarded, respected, and rewarded in the high class community. It is so coveted, in fact, in the upper echelons of society, that it ranks higher than money in most cases! This is why there was such an uproar when Ms Obama was singled out as first a baby mama, and later on as a ghetto girl. The intelligentsia intrinsically understand that anyone who graduates at the top of an Ivy league Institution can NEVER be regarded as a mere 'ghetto girl' regardless of her humble origins! Black women if you intend to find quarry (mates) from the upper echelons of society-please be sure to include liberal arts in your educational curriculum. This will give you a decided advantage over other women (who are not in the know) , as liberal arts stresses understanding of many requisite subjects, with an emphasize on the humanities. Many wealthy individuals see Liberal Arts as a requisite-for their children's educational development! Get yourself into the highest institutions you can possibly manage because the connections alone with the most elite of society, can often 'set you up' for life! Few public schools have the clout and connections of the premier, elite, and more private Ivy League schools. (Beverly hills Public School -is a definite exception) It's important to remember that if you have several layers of class, a conspicuously absent one will often not necessarily deter you from reaching the highest echelons of society. Think about Princess Di. Although she was enshrined in lineage, money, connections, and social savoir faire, she lacked a degree from a prominent institution (or even a community college). Yet, you'll notice with interest, that she had so many other salient lines of class, that this fact was nonchalantly disregarded, and never hindered her social standing...
Now we will subsequently delve into the next 4 at a latter date, but I also wanted to let you ladies know that just as there are layers of class, there are layers of wealth. All rich are NOT born of the same vein. Wealth and class are NOT mutually exclusive! This is why (very rich) Paris Hilton was referred to as 'white trash' by the family of her ex-boyfriend, who's name was also Paris. Because she lacked so many of the other layers, (as well as being indifferent to class-etiquette) she was ill regarded in the mega-rich community, and considered quite common! This is also why in most high class circles, Mrs. Obama would rate exceedingly high! Her educational achievements, combined with her imperious social decorum's, combined with her standing as the first lady would by far outweigh her working man's origins, and jettison her to the top of the social tier. Just as Princess Di's other layers outweighed her lack of scholastic achievement.
For all you social climbing little butterflies, join us next post. The lesson will be posted right under the post. We'll resume with 4 more tiers of wealth, and how to attract men from the higher echelons of wealth.
thanks for tuning in-see you soon
Pay attention ladies, because these lessons will be essential if you intend to move up into the higher echelons of society, or look for a mate in these privileged quarters. First of all know that there are about 14 layers of class, not 2 or 3.
I will start with the first 4.
1. Wealth
-Now this is subjective, but usually starts with around a quarter of a million dollars and up. Wealth is NOT interchangeable with class-it is merely one level of class. This is why most wealthy celebrities would still NOT be considered upper class.
2. Lineage -think LINE through TIME.
When you hear the UCL's talk about lineage they are usually referring to the family line of money, and or status. How long has your family had money? Old money usually refers to money in the family for at least 100 years! This is why many of the UCL's who toot their nose at the nuveau riche are not as upper class as they think they are! Many of the black elite have money only 2-3 generations deep. Now perhaps my math is off, but doesn't a generation = 20 years? This means that many of the ppl tooting up their noses at other bp, would have legitimate 'old money' tooting up their noses at them! Also, if you have no money in this generation yet you are related to royalty-then you still have a degree of lineage ( this is referred to as: reflected glory)
The only way to get lineage if you don't have it is to marry it, or be adopted into a lineage family. This is why Elton John paid a member of a royal family to adopt him (although he was already grown) so that he would have access to the lineage of this family, as well as being able to take the title of Sir Elton John!
3. Memberships
Memberships can be quite exclusive, as I'm sure you've all noticed. The exclusivity of memberships serve a dual purpose. One, it avails people of similar educational, community standing, and/or monetarily leveraged backgrounds to band together. It enables them to make, benefit from, and enjoy the intimate connections with like mannered, similarly bred, and often class-conscious individuals. These connections will serve them through life, and benefit not only them, but undoubtedly their offspring as well. And two, it restricts the access of less resourced, and lower tiered, individuals from being able to ingratiate themselves into these exclusive domains. Some memberships will be closed to you eternally unless you have a family member who has/had a membership. Some will be closed by the very nature of their exclusivity, or because you must be sponsored by a certain number of the other members. Yet surprisingly, many of these clubs are not as exclusive as most people think they are IF you make friends with well connected individuals, and/or have other similar lines of class, breeding, educational, or community standing (regardless of reason) and are accepted in. ..
4. Education
The last one we'll cover today is the layer of education. Whether you went to college on an academic scholarship, or your family paid is irrelevant in this instance. Academic achievement very highly regarded, respected, and rewarded in the high class community. It is so coveted, in fact, in the upper echelons of society, that it ranks higher than money in most cases! This is why there was such an uproar when Ms Obama was singled out as first a baby mama, and later on as a ghetto girl. The intelligentsia intrinsically understand that anyone who graduates at the top of an Ivy league Institution can NEVER be regarded as a mere 'ghetto girl' regardless of her humble origins! Black women if you intend to find quarry (mates) from the upper echelons of society-please be sure to include liberal arts in your educational curriculum. This will give you a decided advantage over other women (who are not in the know) , as liberal arts stresses understanding of many requisite subjects, with an emphasize on the humanities. Many wealthy individuals see Liberal Arts as a requisite-for their children's educational development! Get yourself into the highest institutions you can possibly manage because the connections alone with the most elite of society, can often 'set you up' for life! Few public schools have the clout and connections of the premier, elite, and more private Ivy League schools. (Beverly hills Public School -is a definite exception) It's important to remember that if you have several layers of class, a conspicuously absent one will often not necessarily deter you from reaching the highest echelons of society. Think about Princess Di. Although she was enshrined in lineage, money, connections, and social savoir faire, she lacked a degree from a prominent institution (or even a community college). Yet, you'll notice with interest, that she had so many other salient lines of class, that this fact was nonchalantly disregarded, and never hindered her social standing...
Now we will subsequently delve into the next 4 at a latter date, but I also wanted to let you ladies know that just as there are layers of class, there are layers of wealth. All rich are NOT born of the same vein. Wealth and class are NOT mutually exclusive! This is why (very rich) Paris Hilton was referred to as 'white trash' by the family of her ex-boyfriend, who's name was also Paris. Because she lacked so many of the other layers, (as well as being indifferent to class-etiquette) she was ill regarded in the mega-rich community, and considered quite common! This is also why in most high class circles, Mrs. Obama would rate exceedingly high! Her educational achievements, combined with her imperious social decorum's, combined with her standing as the first lady would by far outweigh her working man's origins, and jettison her to the top of the social tier. Just as Princess Di's other layers outweighed her lack of scholastic achievement.
For all you social climbing little butterflies, join us next post. The lesson will be posted right under the post. We'll resume with 4 more tiers of wealth, and how to attract men from the higher echelons of wealth.
thanks for tuning in-see you soon
162 comments:
First, I just want to say I love your blog and that you inspire me so much. As a young black teenager (girl) this was so helpful and I'll be looking forward to this series of posts. I decided a long time ago that I would move way up the social latter from what I am now. So this post is very helpful.
Elle you need to be concerned with your own relationship with your man. Because trust, black men and white women are some of the FIRST to down grade the love between a white man and black woman. Take care of your own home front and stop trying to "come to the rescue" of folks who don't give a damn about you.
I second this.
Miss Phantom
Thank you for this post Sara.
This is where my thinking has been heading lately.
@ Elle
I debated on whether to respond to this for so many reasons.
I doubt Sara forgot she was Black, but you obviously forgot the home training that your lovely black parents gave you. When grown folks are talking about grown folks business - children do not jump in and instruct.
The black community is a cesspool. Just bc one is black doesn't mean they can't call a spade a spade.
When it come to protecting and providing for BW and children the black community gets an epic FAIL!
And whether you realize it or not at this point in your life, that affects you too Elle.
You must have forgotten or had never been taught that you will soon be a woman and that is as equally important as is being black. One does not supersede the other.
You MUST become aware of the larger picture in order to avoid some serious pitfalls and snares out there that are designed to destroy you Elle as a BW. Just because everything is rosy and peachy in your immediate family and school environment does nothing to prepare you for what you will encounter in the wide world where you will meet these dysfunctional dregs of black society.
So number 1 you owe Sara an apology. You are not among equals here at all and disrespect will not be tolerated. You most certainly would never confront an adult this way in real life and that is just as inexcusable online.
Your youth, idealism, and some indoctrination are blinding you to what is really being said here. Since your experience is limited you have no authority to speak or counsel anyone - you don't have a dog in this fight- YET.
Your demo is the largest one getting their brains blown out for simply saying they're not interested in BM who approach them. So I suggest you stick around, read thoroughly, and listen because you definitely need what is being offered here.
I'm glad you cleared away misconceptions about how to move up the social ladder. However I have mixed feelings about the upper class. On the one hand I admire upperclass people who are decent and likable human beings.
I'm glad you pointed out how lacking in class many wealthy celebrities are.
At least even though my social standing is non-existent I'm not trashy I just didn't think much of social standing until I saw how horribly depicted black women are in the media.
Maybe if I befriend someone in the media who has a great deal of influence not only will I be able to find work I could also improve the image of black women to the point where we'll be seen as individuals and not obese sassy caricatures from the days of old.
@ anon. 7:44am
I could not have said it better.
elle (lol, Elle magazine- at least we know what you read) speak for yourself.
You are probably one of those people who do not wish for the majority of bw to discover what life can be with another race man.
Oh, sure it is OK for you to discover other race men; but, the majority of bw should stay in the "community" and continue to up lift it.
Why should you be the one out enjoying yourself with your w/boyfriend. You freaking hypocrite.
A.
@ Elle...You do realize that Elle Magazine is geared towards ww.
Re-read the articles and look at the pictures.
A.
Elle, hon. I did not address your comment because I simply do not feel the need to explain myself to children. We have much bigger fish to fry than an insolent child, who misunderstands our message. So you can either read on, and perhaps the enlightenment will hit you, or you can take your leave. But either way, this discourse is much needed, and will continue....
Hi Sara (waving)
This is a fantastic post! Thank you so much, this information is so direly needed. I know exactly which site you are refering to also. I was struck as well, by her validating M. Obama being called a gheto girl. The most shocking thing to me however, is that it's quite obvious she thinks SHE would be considered upper class! Can you imagine that? Mrs Obama ( the first lady!) not qualifying, but her believing that SHE would! You are right when you say that she is a fantastic writer/speaker, but her ego is massive and unrestained. She won't even allow anyone to mention your site on her blog, Yet I hear you let ppl mention her site on your blog all the time.Because you want what's best for bw, not an ego award. She's quite articulate and a great writer, but she really needs to reign that astronomical ego in. Sorry for rant-
Hello All,
I think class considerations are incredibly important. Many, especially BP, are conditioned to deny its existance or define it incorrectly as simply a combination of wealth and whiteness. It makes me happy to see BWE bloggers also taking this on.
I've been reading some books which were very informative for any woman with upward mobility in mind. I'd like to share then here if it's alright with you, Sara. (If you object, then I understand if you delete)
They are:
-"How to meet the Rich" and "How to marry the Rich" by Ginnie Polo Sayles. (Sara, have you read this? This is where I encountered the "14 layers of class." This could be so useful to BW.
-"Class" by Paul Fussel
-"Emily Post's Ettiquette" by Peggy Post
-"The Preppy Handbook" by Lisa Brinback
Best Regards,
Lorie
Sara,
An excellent topic on class and social standing. It needs to be discussed because almost all societies have a class structure.
In the U.S. there is always talk of the middle class which by default means there is an upper class and a lower class by way of income.
And as you duly noted, having money does not mean you will be accepted to the upper class (i.e. your Paris Hilton example).
What still amazes me is how many hold on to the myth that the U.S. is a "classless" society which could not be farther from the truth.
Learning to develop oneself, being well-read, improving the things that are within ones control in order to be able to raise one's social level is imperative.
What surprises me is that so many women do not know this. The rule should always be to marry up from ones station. There are and continue to be examples from history.
There is truly nothing new under the sun. "My Fair Lady" or Pigmaylion gives an example of what good diction and etiquette could do to open the doors to Victorian Society for a poor young woman.
The ending is unfortunately what the BC wants upwardly mobile BW to do - marry down.
No upwardly mobile BW in her right mind should EVER marry down, the goal should always be to marry at your level or up. The reason, "generational thinking", it is secure a better future for your descendents.
Every dynasty does and continues to think generational. The BC used to have this 3-4 generations ago but it has been lost in the last 2-3 generations (assuming a generation is 20 years).
Anyway, sorry for the long post, but this is exceptionally timely.
I won't even address young, foolish and naive "Elle", others have already done so quite nicely.
Sara OMG! This post is incredible! the information, the tips (Liberal arts etc) who knew! I'm soooo glad you took on this topic-it's so needed by so many bw who think you must die in the class you were born to. This advice is so timely and essential. This should be required reading. Thank you so much for being an advocate for the betterment of black women! You really do all you can to uplift and help bw. If any of us are left behind on the titanic-just know that you have done everything in your power to throw that person a lifeline, they chose to ignore.
God bless you!
Does racism exist in your fantasy world because it does exist in the real world. How does Sara suggest BW deal with racism encountered when a young women tries to enter some of the exclusive clubs and institutions. That is what needs to be deal with and talked about. Too often these BWE sites ignore these facts.
@Anon 13:47
Racism exists everywhere, however, I have found that when you begin to network/align with those of similar values, ideals,etc. they will be the ones that remove the barriers or ensure that those issues are minimized or even eliminated.
I speak from experience.
"I'm soooo glad you took on this topic-it's so needed by so many bw who think you must die in the class you were born to. This advice is so timely and essential."
I agree, we do not live in India. Where colorism and class is everything.
A.
That's an interesting POV anon.
Of course Iacknowledge that racism exists. It always has, and I don't expect it to end in my lifetime. But that's no reason not to forge ahead. Bw have never let racism stop us, why would we do so now with so much more at stake? There are clubs full of rich successful bw -you know. I never indicated the memberships must be in 'white clubs' You inferred that. Exclusivity means that a certain segment will be kept out regardless. But if there are 5 clubs near you, and you join 2, do you care that the other 3 are fully fuctioning without you? Arent you more concerned with the benefits the 2 you did join can provide you with? We have to learn to focus on our path, instead of our obstructions....This is why so many bm cannot see the potential their lives could be now, because they are soooo focused on what 'someone will not let them do', and the truth is, that you get what you FOCUS ON- it's always been that way, and always will be...(smh)
anon. @ 1:47 p.m...In time peoples' attitudes will change.
Who would have thought back in the 1950's that ww/bm would be together and almost no one looks twice in their direction.
Times are a changing.
Any other comments annonymous?
A.
Great Comments Karen and Sara.
Yes, bw have always had to deal with racism. Racism is nothing new; but, we forged on.
Any more questions negative anonymous?
A.
Racism/sexism will always be around. I agree, why focus on THAT...focus on the positive not the negative. BW have been able to work situations to their advantage before with those obstacles, so NOW is the time to think about racism? In 2009? Where there are more opportunities than ever before? HA! Please! Sara is right...that's the BM job, to focus on what people won't let them do, have pity parties, and whine whine whine...and consquently they do nothing.
No, it's best for us to remain positive in all situations. That way we will be able to achieve our goals. Great post Sara!
Young lady, you are quite the peice of work! You have the audacity to write in telling us that you are not going to listen to a word we say, and then expect me to post your lengthy post of drivel,-so everyone can 'listen' to what you have to say! Let me tell you something young woman. Respect is a two way street that meets in the middle. Just as you have chosen to disregard everything we've tried to tell you, and you have 'chosen' not to hear. We are now 'choosing' not to hear what you have to say. Please remove yourself from this forum, and be on your way -little girl...
Wow this is chock full of hypocrisy. There are some truths in this jumble of text, written by what appears to be a pseudo-intellectual black female, touching on a real issue. But there is some serious loathing for black men probably brought on by deep seated issues from her own past, which makes this entire blog ungodly biased.
And just because I said there are some truths here that doesn't mean that every well off, intelligent white male wants to play captain save a ho. Most white men, or any real man in general, prefer a woman, not just a black woman, who is independent and can take care of herself. We don't want a woman who will use our status to climb to piggy-back her way up the social ladder. Relationships should be based on love something much higher and more valuable than social status and wealth. But I guess since social status would appear to be all you are worried about, then hire a matchmaker or go back to arranged marriages and set yourselves back a few hundred years. I’m not trying to be malicious towards any of you but if this is all you care about then it’s sad and depressing. Anyways in closing feel free to comment back and put me in my place and tell me how wrong and naïve, or wrong I am. Just get off your lazy rear and climb your own ladder.
Sincerely,
A "Non-Bm"
I totally agree that Elle is in the wrong, but why don't we stop bashing her age? I too am a younger black woman. But unlike her I'm willing to see the evils that are out there but. Her youth isn't necessarily a factor in her unwillingness to understand and misinterpret.
We all know how discouraging it is to be dismissed because of our race and gender. Let's not forget about age too. :)
@ non-BM
You ain't fooling anyone non-BM it's obvious that you're a black man or a racist numbskull(what difference does it make). The fact that you called black women(women in general seeking wealthy husbands) hoes says a lot about your lack of class.
I judge class not only on your social status but also on your character.
Judging by your very ignorant post I'm assuming you are lacking all three qualities in the class department.
How come all the white women married to wealthy men aren't expected to pull their own weight. While women of color are expected to work like a beast of burdern?
Tiger Woods married a white female nanny and I doubt you'll call her names. I doubt you disparage Tiger Woods by calling him captain save a ho!
Take your classless ignorance elsewhere.
Dear Mr Non-bm.
if you are indeed not a bm, where in the world would you get the expression Caption save a ho from? Last I checked, very few wm use such a misogynistic, and deplorable term. And even then, it's usually white males who have spent such an extended period of time with the damaged bm in the blk constructs, that they have become just as damaged as them.
Tell me something, how come when a ww wants to marry up, she is merely doing the best she can for her incipient offspring. But when a bw wants to marry up, or move up, or live up etc, she is automatically catalogued a gold digger, or by some loosely contrived term meaning the same thing? Would you have me advise bw to marry down-so they will be avaialable to men of your lowly stature? BTW, before you ask, No, I don't know you, but I made a snap judgement as to your economic position/resources the moment I heard you utilizing such ghetto terminology. And speaking of jumble-what exactly was your point? Oh, wait a minute-I think I know. Bw should take any bottom of the barrel drunken, drugged out dreg, because they are bw (hoes) who do not deserve to aspire higher, or have more. Did I get it right? Ok, now let me re-direct you elsewhere, because you've obviously come to the wrong blog -black man!
Nice try...
Okay, Anonymous 10/11/09 3:49pm or as you call yourself a "non-Bm" what do you expect to accomplish by coming to this blog and being disrespectful to the women here?
I would like to think that you are capable of expressing your views without being rude. Rudeness reflects a lack of maturity or character development on your part. This would explain why you failed to grasp all the good points that Sara made in this post. Why would any well-adjusted, mature person be interested in what you have to say?
Hi Sara,
Fantastic post! I have noticed that African American women are uncomfortable with the idea of class and social mobility. I have read blogs and entertainment sites where AA women would make nasty comments about AA women like Grace Hightower, and other Black women who were in relationships with powerful non Black men. I never understood why AA women who were intelligent, articulate, and beautiful, would feel guilty about wanting to move to higher class tiers. Other non Black women as well as non AA Black women are already doing this and have no guilt, and make no excuses for doing so. Asian women, African women, and Caribbean women do this, and our parents encourage it! AA women, need to do what’s best for them. The sky is not the limit. Get yours! Trust non AA women are not worried about what the men of their race and ethnicity think, since the men are trying to do the same thing!
The minute "non-bm" said "captin save a hoe", I knew he was black. If you guys are going to pretend to be a wm/ww/bw @ least understand the terminology the specific group/gender uses. You guys try to pull the same thing on YT. It's entertaining, really, but pathetic all at the same time.
******
Excellent post Sara, to move upward is to talk to people who've been there and done that! That is what internships are for, that is what attending sucess seminars are for. Only those who have no intention of moving forward have a problem with this. How on earth do they think women like Oprah or Michelle Obama make it so far in life? Do they think they just waited for someone to knock on the door and give them an opportunity? They had to step out of their comfort zone and meet people.
Maybe if bm(some) understood this the majority of them would be in school instead of kickin' w/ their boys who aren't heading anywhere.
Alot of interesting points and I want to throw in a couple. As long as there are black women, black men will not be instinct. I have three black brothers, 1 is married before 21 to a black woman, the second would love to get married before he is 25 and the third is looking for the right woman. All are not perfect, but they all strive to be great men and I am proud of that. I love and date white men, not because what black men lack, but it is just what I like.
This is one of the posts where the black men bashing was really hard.
I'll also add to the younger BW on here (18-22), if you are in college and you're serious about marrying IR, it does not hurt to pledge a predominately white sorority if you are at a PWI. Unlike the NPHC sororities, these sororities do a lot of mixers and parties with fraternities, many of them that have eligible young men that are going places. Of course, everyone isn't going to marry in college but I've gone through the different wedding invites I have received over the past year and most are marrying guys they met through events and stuff that you get to do if you're Greek.
Not only meeting quality men though, being Greek is a way to go up the class ladder. Not to downplay predominately black sororities because they are also a way to go up the class ladder as well, but if you want to open yourself up to non-BM, you need to be where they are.
I don't know about any other ladies but as I'm getting myself together (applying to grad school, etc), I'm also looking at joining the Junior League. It's a philanthropic organization and it's another way to move up the class ladder.
I did not go to a Private or Ivy University but I've learned to make my degree work for me. I went to a very well known public university that has many well-connected alumni and I keep in contact with as many as possible. Younger bw, like you Elle, if you are in college, meet older alumni and make those connections. It can make or break you.
I'm going to stop here before I really drag your post off track, Sara. But this is really food for thought. My maternal side of the family can be considered black upper class but when it comes to society as a whole, we're nothing because we don't have that generational wealth that means everything. And these days, with the way that the DBR BC is, everyone, yes including the upper class, is on their way to being sucked down into the vortex.
Anon, this post is NOT about your brothers, so please refraim from taking us off course. And bm ARE lending themselves to extinction, have you seen the rate at which they kill each other? Black enclaves are look Rawanda these days-total hellholes in which daily survival is a questimate. I'm sorry you feel that I am bashing, I see it as merely giving my opinion. You are welcome to discard, and disregard anything that does not meet with your approval, but please do not take us off course again-thank you...
anonymous troll @ 3:49 PM,
I work for a living and I have NEVER 100% depended on any man to pay one bill for me.
A.
@ KM, I know bw sororities have ww members. I have yet to see a bw in a ww sorority.
A.
Gab, do you really want us to speak to elle the way we would a true troll? Do you know Elle? Elle could be Alvin.
A.
And bm ARE lending themselves to extinction, have you seen the rate at which they kill each other? Black enclaves are look Rawanda these days-total hellholes in which daily survival is a questimate.
A young boy just died as a result of BLACK BOYS killing him - in Chicago...Sara is right, it's like Rawanda in the BC. And anyone who says it's not is FOOLING THEMSELVES!
Sara, all: The 'save a ho' remark was only one of the things that gave this maquerade away. A wm would never come on a thread like this and use that word. Even more false to me was the statement that a wm wants an 'independant' woman who can pay her own bills(and his too?). I and all the men I know or know of were brought up to be the main breadwinner in a family.
I could go on; it was all like that. It doesn't seem like anyone here was fooled, but I wanted to throw in my 2 cents.
"This is one of the posts where the black men bashing was really hard.".
Elle is that you? Still trying to get one in for your "brothers". We do not know your brothers and if you will notice we also say "some" bm and not all.
You can stop your pleading. I am sure your brothers could careless about this site.
A.
Hey Arthur!
So great hearing from you. And you are soooo right, the comment about wanting an independent woman was a dead give away. I totally missed that....
Thank you Lorie for sharing those books! I read Ginnie's book a long time ago- I guess I need to get another copy!
Thank you Karen for your input! I have been thinking of this as well and trying to fit everything together. I do wish to date in order to marry, but I want to make a wise decision for the benefit of my unborn children. I don't want them to have to reinvent the wheel so to speak.
@ Leane
I know right. I had so many people hint that my undergrad degree was useless- go figure!
Thank you Karen for sharing! If you ever care to share more I am all ears!
@ anonymous: There are BW in WW sororities, just not a lot yet. Mostly on the West Coast/Northeast but there are quite a bit of BW pledging WW sororities down south and Texas, more than you would think.
BW sororities are good but then if you're looking to expand, that circle can restrict you if you let it.
@KM I was an active member of the Junior League of Atlanta. It was mostly women between 30-40. I was very bored with them and I did not renew my membership this year. My neighbor is still a member and she likes going to their workshops on leadership. I don't know what city you are in but I would check it out first and chat with the members.
@Sara Thanks for the list of qualities needed in the upper crust of society. I notice the examples used were bw married to European men. There seems to be a long lineage in Europe more so than the US. If there are any readers who are married or dating euro men, could you share some of your experiences?
@ Gab
I think most people were easy on Elle. Elle was not a "young woman" trying to learn. She came here to instruct everybody on this blog and give us all a piece of her mind. There is a huge difference.
Halima has blogged on this very topic before.
Elle is in no place to comment on, advise, and can't relate to what a 50 year old, 40 year old, 30 year old, or 20 year old woman is experiencing. She has no place critiquing commentary or strategy. She is a teenager, Gab, so her age was very relevant in the way she was "handled".
And to top it all off not to have a clue as to the context of the post or the blog and just get to running off at the mouth...wow.
There are norms when dealing with people and my comment/question still stands- where in real life do younger folk instruct their elders? Even a teenager won't jump into a group of college aged students and start telling them what they need to be doing/thinking/feeling/talking about.
I don't even do that in my own life with my elders even though I may think they are just as wrong and crazy as guano. If I must say something then I carefully choose my words so I don't offend and make sure that I am not disrespectful.
She was out of line and trust she has worse in store for her from the DBRs if she doesn't buy a clue soon.
Captain save a ho has me rolling on the floor! I can just smell the inadequacy, and desperation! LOL
Looks like you hit it out of the ballpark with this one!
Thank you Arthur for setting the record straight.
And thank you Taylor-Sara for another truthful and hard hitting essay.
No one is forcing these obviously disgruntled and offended commenters to be here.
If they're offended by the views shared, there are any number of other blogs/sites where they'd feel right at home I'm sure.
Hi Sara, thank you. When I was just out of school, in my first office/big company job, I was always reading about the corporate world and how I could best get ahead. Something I always remembered, 'If you want to get promoted, dress like you already have that job'. Of course, that was before Dress for Success was written and everyone caught on.
But the main principle is the same as what's being talked about here. In order to move into a different strata of society (higher or lower), the first thing you have to do is learn how to make youself blend in to that group. How to look, talk, act the way people in that strata do. When you can do that, then you're able to start getting to know individual people and making yourself part of a whole new social network. Over time, you become established in the new strata; you become one of them.
This works; I've done it three or four times over the course my life.
And, it's been a real education. When you become part of a different group than the one you grew up in, you learn their point of view; to some extent it becomes your point of view. We learn things about people in general, and about us ourselves, that we could never learn by staying in the pigeonholes we were born in.
Sara,
I love this post. You knocked it out of the ballpark again and I'm not at all surprised because you always do. I read about the 14 Layers of Class in Ginie Sayles' book "How to meet the Rich: For Business, Friendship, or Romance" but, I feel you actually went MUCH more in depth with her original idea and did a fantastic job doing so. Your explanations of the layers is right on point because you made it much more personalized (to the lives of bw). I think Ginie Sayles should be required reading for all black women.
ITA with Arthur, no white man alive would ever use the words "Captain Save A Ho"( unless he was a wigger, of course). I resent the fact that these people come on to this blog and succeed most times, in distracting from the conversation.
@Aphrodite,
You said, Thank you Karen for sharing! If you ever care to share more I am all ears!
You are welcome, are there particular topics you have in mind?
=======================
@Arthur,
Exactly. I used some of the same techniques in the corporate world.
I would also add, to utilize the power of observation. How do the people that you want to get closer to carry themselves or behave? It is extremely important to learn as much as possible about your target group or audience.
As an example, if someone wants to move to a foreign country, it is not enough to learn about housing, business environment, etc. What is even more important and can make/break the experience are the cultural norms.
Something that is also important and Sara touched on with a Liberal Arts background, learn about history and philosophy. It is amazing the amount of ignorance that exists about U.S. history and world affairs. To get "alternative" perspectives, I can recommend some books:
US - Lies my teach told me, People's History of the United States,
General Reading on World affairs - Foreign Affairs
I am currently reading "The Ascent of Money - Niall Ferguson"...
By the way, a good piece of advice that I was given is that if you want to learn anything about a subject, read at least 3 books...
As for philosophy, you might say "why bother", the fact remains that what the Greek scholars wrote thousands of years ago about human behaviour and societies are still valid today (Socrates, Aristotl, Plato and others).
The anon "I have nothing to offer a bw woman" so-called nonblack male is definitely some dbr black male. He chose to call himself nonblack probably because he couldn't decide which race to pretend to be. From experience, nonblack men are more likely to abhor the "miss independent I don't need a man to take care of me" woman than the one described in Sarah's posts.
Black males who can't handle the fact that they (as a race/gender)don't generally have the resources to provide for women the way nonblack men do often resort to the ho and goldigger tirades out of their own insecurities.
Concerning history, I forgot to add one last point. Only an informed populace can make informed decisions about its political parties and government.
U.S politics has remained essentially unchanged in the last 100 years. The majority of the population does not know this and the political parties count on this fact. There is no discernible difference between the two major political parties and that in and of itself is a problem, the Republicans wrap themselves up in rhetoric but in actuality both parties have maintained the same basic agenda since the middle of the last century. A democracy cannot really thrive when other points of view/factions are not represented in a political discourse
By learning more about U.S. history, it will enable one to see the patterns which repeat over and over again.
I won't make this a dissertation (LOL) but only emphasize the importance of learning about the country's history. What is taught in the schools as little to do with the actual history of the nation.
Okay, I think I am straying from the topic so I will stop here...
Thanks everyone who rec. various books and gave insight/advice. It's great to see you all helping each other. As for reading, I myself am an avid reader (3-4)books per month on average, and I highly rec. you ladies read alot as well. Reading will put you out front and ahead of 90% of the pack because most ppl buy a book an barely make it through chapter 1! Studies have shown time and again, the richer, ppl are, the more books they own. (business, finance, career type books-not smut)Black women if you want to have power over segments of the world, you MUST start with yourself! Decide what you want to do with your lives, make a plan and stick to it. Then READ everything you can find from ppl who have already achieved what you are trying to achieve. Eat, sleep and dream your dream, and watch it be breathed into fruition. And yes I highly rec. Ginie P. I read everything of hers, that I can find...
I am taking a philosophy class and I agree this course will help anyone understand the importance of other peoples' cultural norms.
You want respect? Then give it.
A.
Wow! I want to thank you for your brutal honesty. For so long it has been taboo for black women to say that their desire is to be a "kept" woman. I never could understand why it was wrong to want a man to be the true provider. I think if black women truly had the option to stay home and raise the family, the black race would be much further in society. Don't get me wrong, I know we have made awesome strides, but too many of us just can't get seem to get it together. Please continue to give more information. I am very appreciative.
Wait-Anon.
I'm not sure where ppl are getting the impression I'm talking about kept women -because I'm not. I'm just talking about women who desire to move up, marry up, and live up. But If anyone wants to be 'kept' there are plenty of books that tell you how to accomplish this (check ebay). Some I might rec. are:
1. The gold digger's guide,
2. The seduction mystique
3. How to marry a rich man
(all avail. on ebay.)
Ginie Polo is an excellent guide for any woman wanting to go this route. She freely and proudly brags about being on welfare, and snagging a multi (old money) millionaire. So if that's what you want the info is there, but that's not what I was referring to....
Anonymous troll @ 3:58, you are not funny.
A.
Sara, I'm a bit late to this party, but you have outdone yourself with this post! You have an uncanny knack for spotting a need and filling it. You will always be a successful person because of this, and you're helping other BW to become successful. Bless you.
Hi,i live in NYC and i would like to know if anyone could tell me where is the best place to meet these guys?
I do see attractive guys all the time,but how do you know if these men are even interested in dating black women?
@Charlene...just read the previous post.
A.
Hi Sara, great post.
I think when Anon said 'kept' you automatically thought mistress, or woman who does not 'do anything'. But what she actually meant was women who have the option of staying home and caring for the children or having spending life as a country club dwelling debutante. So I think you two were on the same page. I think the word 'kept' threw you off. Because certainly women who go through great measures to 'marry up' are not doing it in order to keep working arduously at a job they may or may not enjoy. So, I know you were not referring to mistresses, but you did mean women who have the option of staying home, because they have highly successful husbands right?
@Lisa...
Anon. knew exactly what she/he was saying. Then he/she had the nerve to place quotations marks around the word.
Everyone understands what the word "kept" means. Anonymous Troll could have easily said, wife and not "kept". Anon. troll can speak for herself.
A.
For minute there I thought the troll really didn't know the dfference between "a kept woman" and a woman whose HUSBAND is gainfully employed and the sole provider for HIS FAMILY.
Some of these trolls are crafty little demons.
This post could not have come at a better time. I'm off to a very important art exhibition this week and I'm nervous about being one of the only black women to attend (ridiculous considering I usually am lol) due to negative comments I received from my "friends" when I got my invite. Sara I really find your entries empowering so please don't listen to negative comments. I agree with you about needing to do more to become socially mobile. I like to attend events and make friends (not network..I hate that term) usually I am one of the only black females to attend these events. I guess that leaves me at an advantage to meet eligible single wm from the circles I am already in or want to join. Sara what do you think of the term "gold digger?" for women who are social butterflies? I've been called that more than once and in all honesty it doesn't make any sense to me. A book I recommend especially for UK readers of your blog is "Debretts; Ettiquette for girls" Debretts produce a lot of book for people in those circles and those who want to get into those circles. "Correct form" is also another book I recommend. Both have helped me a great deal. I'm going to write something about this the more we (bw) talk about it the more it becomes reality and the norm.
.. I've been called (gold digger) more than once ..
Anna Nicole Smith was a gold digger; i.e., a young woman who marries a rich old man, expecting him to die soon and leave her all the money.
A woman who wants to make sure that a prospective husband can provide a comfortable and stable life for his family is called "sensible", out here is the real world.
Sunhun,
Thank you so much for sharing the info about the books. (I guess I should do a list of required reading for bw aspiring to that level. As for your question, I think the term gold digger was imposed upon bw so that they would tricked into not seeking reciprocity. How can women who hold the majority of wealth and assets in a community, and in many cases, work up to 3 jobs, ever be considered gold diggers? Yet, have you ever noticed that bm, who become rich, successful, and/or prominent in their respective fields will often marry a white/non blk woman who has absolutely nothing!
ie, Tiger Woods, and the nanny
The rich football player who married that little playboy tramp.
Reginald Dennis and the chinese imigrant... and on and on this list could go. Yet these women are NEVER called gold diggers! But if a bw expects a man to pay for dinner, or help her with a bill, she is immediately slapped with this ridiculous label! Bw better wake up and fast! Gold digger is nothing but a term of subjugation. It is often used to keep a woman settling for NOTHING, and trying to love/protect/and take care of a bottom of the barrel man. The truth is most bm want bw in the role of giver/sacrificer, so THEY can be the gold diggers!!
IMO, Asian females play the "game" better than ww.
A.
Sunhun,
Thank you so much for sharing the info about the books. (I guess I should do a list of required reading for bw aspiring to that level. As for your question, I think the term gold digger was imposed upon bw so that they would tricked into not seeking reciprocity. How can women who hold the majority of wealth and assets in a community, and in many cases, work up to 3 jobs, ever be considered gold diggers? Yet, have you ever noticed that bm, who become rich, successful, and/or prominent in their respective fields will often marry a white/non blk woman who has absolutely nothing!
ie, Tiger Woods, and the nanny
The rich football player who married that little playboy tramp.
Reginald Dennis and the chinese imigrant... and on and on this list could go. Yet these women are NEVER called gold diggers! But if a bw expects a man to pay for dinner, or help her with a bill, she is immediately slapped with this ridiculous label! Bw better wake up and fast! Gold digger is nothing but a term of subjugation. It is often used to keep a woman settling for NOTHING, and trying to love/protect/and take care of a bottom of the barrel man. The truth is most bm want bw in the role of giver/sacrificer, so THEY can be the gold diggers!!
Sarah,
This comment demonstrates the importance of the advice that you have giving on this blog. BW need to do what they can to ensure our own security and success! Why should bw waste our time wiht a group of who don't want nor respect us?
Thanks for the great posts!
Sarah I have a question. I'm dating a bm. He's a good man and he works but he has no degree (just HS) I come from one of those upper crust families you are talking about,I have 2 degrees, and we are quite wealthy. My family is dead set against this man because he does have a few kids, and no ex-wives. But He's sexy and fine like Gerald Levert, and I love his funny personality. You always say you believe in a good man regardless of color. What do you think of this? He says he does not believe in marriage, but I'm changing his mind. I really think I love him, and I'm pregnant.(No one knows yet) He says we should move in together as a trial marriage but since he only has a sm. Apt. it will have to be into my house. I feel weird about this because he's here all the time anyway, and doesn't really pay for anything (except an occasional pizza.) But he's (((HOT!!!))) and I'm really turned on by him. Do you think it can work? Theres's also a wm where I work, who has been persuing me like crazy. He's handsome too, in a more clean cut way. He owns 2 nice vehicles, 2 homes, has more education than me, and the few times I snuck out with him, he paid for everything, and treated me like a queen. The problem is the bad boy element is missing with him. There's no challenge because he's already in love with me and I don't have to be anything but me. I don't have to wear my hair straight (he loves it nappy) I don't have to dress sexy, or be perfectly made up. (Like with the Levert-look a like) I know I sound like a flake, but I kinda miss the bad boy thing when I'm with the wm. He's proposed twice but I'm unsure of what to do. No, I don't want a thug, but he's so straightlaced, it's a little boring. What's crazy is the fact that at work, there are 3 other women who want the wm desparately-and two of them are black! He never notices because he wants me, but I'm not sure who I want. I'm using fake name cause I don't want to be recognized. And now I'm going to throw you for a bigger loop, I know someone as prudish as you will be shocked to hear this but: I'm not sure which one of them is the father of my unborn child, I'll have to wait till it's born to have it tested, but I strongly suspect it's the wm. So I hope you don't think I'm a tramp or anything, I made a mistake and now I just don't know what to do....
@ Amanda TROLL...YOU ARE WASTING SARA'S TIME. BE GONE WITCH.
a.
Amanda, I think you've missed your calling you should become a writer for soap operas with that melodramatic, phony nonsense you had the gall to bring to this website. Sara and her readers are about serious business here. Don't waste our time with your foolishness.
Who is Reginal Dennis?
Amanda that was too silly to answer. I know you did not just confess to sleeping with 2 men at the same time girl!!! I can't even bother to answer that nonsense. I think you have a vivid imagination- you probably wrote this from a project flat. Submit your fiction to Double day, perhaps they'll publish it....
Amanda...really? Come on, try again dear.
Amanda said: I know I sound like a flake.
Amarie said: You are a flake!
Oops, looks like I missed most of the party, LOL. But I have to say that I wasn't surprised by how many comments this post got in such a short time...for some reason, the thought of a BW trying to climb the social ladder makes people bite their thumbs and gnash their teeth. It's quite pathetic, actually...I can't help after reading some of these comments but to think of children playing tag in the playground: instead of putting more effort into running, the chaser always reaches their hand out and tugs on the back of the runner's shirt, not caring whether the runner falls or not because they caught them in the end. Their desperation confirms what we already know: that if we put our effort into our own betterment, we can achieve whatever we want.
Thanks, ladies, for the book recommendations. I'll have to check some of these books out of the library next time I visit!
Steph, you should have seen how many I deleted in que!!! They came out of the woodwork screaming and protesting that this confirmed that bw were gold diggers, (now, why would they care?) but I didn't let them through. But they were very much enraged....
Reginald Dennis was a genius (passed away-awile ago) and a harvard law graduated Lawyer. He was an awesome and astute business man without equal who managed to buy the rights to Beechnut (in a very covert, and strikingly clever way) and built up an empire. He was worth over 300 million dollars at the time of his death which he promptly left to his Asian wife, Loida. She has since built houses and infrastructures in her native country to the tune of millions, and not one cent of that fortune ever came back to the bc.(like that's a surprise) It seems when bm make money, they can't wait to give it to other cultures, through the women...
hi all-
great post Sara, absolutely spot on.
someone asked who dennis was? he was the first black billionaire if i am not mistaken. way to go immigrant woman. take/send THAT back to your country. lol! ok, i am cracking myself up tonight. please, immigrants should not take offense. i meant no offense. i am just saying...
Sara, i love your blog and the voices of the intelligent women that gather here. the trolls crack me up as well. they are persistent little frightened buggers.
keep up the good work!
blessings,
focusedpurpose
Concerning Reginald Lewis, during his life he did give somewhat to the BC via Harvard University and a museum. However, neither of these activities build jobs or communities as what his widow is doing in her home country.
Source: http://www.africanamericanculture.org/museum_reglewis.html
Excerpt:
"With all of his success, Reginald did not forget others; giving back was part of his life. In 1987 he established The Reginald F. Lewis Foundation, which funded grants of approximately $10 million to various non-profit programs and organizations while Reginald was alive. His first major grant was an unsolicited $1 million to Howard University—a school he never attended—in 1988; the federal government matched the grant, making the gift to Howard University $2 million, which was used to fund an endowment. Interest from this endowment is used for scholarships, fellowships, and faculty sabbaticals. In 1992, Reginald donated $3 million to Harvard Law School—the largest grant in the history of the school at the time. In gratitude, the school renamed its International Law Center the Reginald F. Lewis International Law Center. Among other programs, the grant supports a fellowship to teach minority lawyers how to be law professors."
So at the end of the day, as Sara stated, the majority of his estate did not go back to the BC even though without assistance from relatives/friends at the start, he would not have been able to start his "empire-building".
A lesson to all of us, wealth is passed through the immediate family and more often than not via the wife when the husband dies. Therefore, who you marry as Sara and many other bloggers have stated has a direct impact on your future and the future of your children.
What wealthy BMs do with their money does not interest me but it does serve as a concrete lesson for us that their wives not their parents or siblings receive this transference of wealth.
We as BW need to take note and act for our benefit and not focus on what they do. It is of no benefit for us to do so as the facts show.
And this is why I don't believe in all these charities geared to 'help bm' in various ways. Because I KNOW the minute these men make it big,(no matter how much you helped them in the beginning) 99% of that money will be going to white/non blk women. And I'm NOT going to fund a ww lying on the beach getting a tan on the backs of bw everywhere. In the case with RL. his Aunt worked tirelessly to help him get into Harvard, as well as scraping and scrounging to get him the items he needed while there. She received nothing except a thank you for all that hard work! His non-blk immigrant wife got everything! Bw. Let these men make it on THEIR own, because the minute they make it, they'll forget your name anyway.
The bm's plan has ALWAYS been to
a. GET HIS and Go!
b. GET a white/non bw to take with him!
Don't be their fools anymore!!
Correction:
"...Concerning Reginald Lewis, during his life he did give somewhat to the BC via Harvard University..."
Should have been stated as:
"...Concerning Reginald Lewis, during his life he did give somewhat to the BC via.." Howard University
I would think every woman would aspire to marry up. Women are conditioned to “marry up” to seek out the best because doing so gives the next generation to best chance for survival. This is how it’s done in most of the animal kingdom the female selects the best the species has to offer, not whatever happens to be available at the moment. It seems only in the bc that the women have been brainwashed into believing that they are supposed to be the strongest and the best and therefore responsible for the survival of the bc. This thinking is so upside down and flawed and it is the very reason the bc is falling to pieces. In my own life education and dating up have opened up more opportunities than I could have ever imagined and no one will make me feel guilty for pursuing the best. No woman needs to explain, defend or apologize for dating up because mating/dating up is the only sensible way to ensure our survival.
sara you need to do a blog post on that very subject of RL and his immigrant wife. Along w/ others. The guy who currently dating/engaged to eddie murphy's ex-wife, got most of his money taken from a ww that he met at walmart, she was a cashier. he signed some prenup saying that he would allow a certain amount of money given to her, but failed to read the fine print. you know he would have fought tooth and nail for his money if it were a bw. bm need to admit that they date and marry golddiggers! and these women know it!
You're right bw need to stop funding these charities are given to bm only for them to get up,wave goodbye, and share the wealth w/ someone who wouldn't even look @ them twice if he didn't have any money. no thank you!
Wow. I must say I agree with the first post. I'm young, too---20 in fact, but still, I agree. Basing the black community is not the way to go. We have to be communally-minded. The girl does have a point. Sara you seem to have a lot of anger towards blacks. I agree with a lot of what you say but this is true.
@ Sara...lol, I guest you did not care for my last post about Reginal Lewis. But, I agree Karen said everything better than I did.
So, it was his Aunt that sent him to school.
Sometimes I wonder what some of these bm's immediate family think of their behaviors and attitudes. There was a time when a bm became successful he always publicly thanked his mom and dad or at least mom and his family.
It is so sad that so many of these men have gotten to a place where they do not see a problem with their behaviors are attitudes.
A.
Deb Troll...You too can shut your pie hole. No one cares what you think. Be gone witch.
A.
Deb said...
Wow. I must say I agree with the first post. I'm young, too---20 in fact, but still, I agree. Basing the black community is not the way to go. We have to be communally-minded. The girl does have a point. Sara you seem to have a lot of anger towards blacks. I agree with a lot of what you say but this is true.
Deb this is where you need to grow up and develop life experience. Sara is not bashing the bc. All she and others are doing is quoting through observation. The fact that it is put in text, is simply the fact of what is occurring- not bashing. When you live a little longer, certain things will begin to jump out at you and you will look back and think on Sara's post and other BWE bloggers. What BWE bloggers are doing is to INFORM BW, especially the younger ones of the path we should take and to BE AWARE of paths we should NOT take. In other words, trying to save uneccessary heartache when you could have learned. The BC has been dead for decades now, there is no one to be "communal with", except other BW who are on the same thought page as yourself. Sharing the same skin color does not automatically make me "communal" with any one. BM CERTAINLY do not feel the same---they left the battles trenches years ago screaming (like a girl) as they ran.
*It seems alot of these young black women don't get it. They are living and seeing through rose colored glasses their family/peers has taught them to see out of.
Miss Phantom
@ Sky...There was a post about Micheal Strahan.
LOL, the ex. was given more than half of his wealth after only six years of marriage and now he wants to date the very wealthy and beautiful Tracey Edmonds.
IMO, Tracey was a fool for dating this guy in the first place.
If I am not mistaken I think he placed a tracking devise on her car. He did not have sense enough to do that to the ex.
A.
Deb I don't have alot of anger toward blacks. (there's that lumping mechanism again) I have alot of anger at bw always being told to settle for non-contributing, gold teeth wearing-rims costing more than his car-can't pay CS,-but always has money for a 40oz-type man, when all he's bringing to the table are bills and babies, that bw will have nearly 80% of black childen are fatherless??? Because too many bw have this misguided sense of loyalty to men won't even take care of their children!!!
And the minute these fools get some money, they break their necks putting Becky, Sing li, and Maria in the lap of luxury, and leave bw and children assed out! - What I keep trying to impress on bw is that they need to forget about being there for a 'brother' who's not your brother any-damn-way, and be there for the men who are there for you! Forget color, and just get the best man you can find. Because most Bm do not mean you any good! And you owe it to yourself and your children to get the best husband/father you can find. Bm have had a hidden agenda for years that they've kept under wraps. I've observed years ago, what they were planning. But far too many bw have been blinded by the lens of racial loyalty. Dismiss that ridiculous notion! You need to be loyal to YOUR dreams, and YOUR aspirations, and YOUR children. If you are tangled up in the insidious ropes of racial loyalty, you will be bound, chained up, and sold into bc slavery.
No A.
If I accidentally deleted you-I apologize. I just deleted 5-6 posts from ppl (prob-bm) very angry about what I said..-what else is new?
I have alot of anger at bw always being told to settle for non-contributing, gold teeth wearing-rims costing more than his car-can't pay CS,-but always has money for a 40oz-type man, when all he's bringing to the table are bills and babies, that bw will have nearly 80% of black childen are fatherless??? Because too many bw have this misguided sense of loyalty to men won't even take care of their children!!!
PREACH!!!
You are so right and many of these people get angry when u tell the truth.
If women were all of the things u mentioned the men would feel the same way but they want u to accept them and their non contibuting mess. Some already talk down and about black women anyway, well if anything is wrong with the black woman i can assure that the black man is contributing to her down fall. Black women don't talk down to or about black men the way they talk down to and about us. Who is raising these good for nothing men?? Mama should be ashamed of herself.
u also say, And the minute these fools get some money, they break their necks putting Becky, Sing li, and Maria in the lap of luxury.
You're right and they act as if these women aren't there for the money most of them don't have anything and didn't come from anything but if it was a black girl these men would automatically think that they are with them for the money. Let these good for nothing men go broke becky and the rest of her golddigging nonblack friends will move on to the next DUMMY with money.
Look at these wm that are going to prison from wall street. In interveiws when asked about the women that they were dating before they went to jail and became broke, the men always say that the relationships has ended. U know why it has ended, it's not so much about them being in jail it's because when their freedom was taken away, the money went away as well.
um, guys, this isn't the jane austen era anymore. why do we have to marry up just to be successful? What makes you think a black woman can't do it on her own? Or better yet, with a black man by her side? It has been done plenty of times before. No, Im not talking about some Lil Wayne, Flava-less Flob "Flav" lookalike, I'm talking about a real man. Btw, I don't even like rap, Michael Buble and Tokio Hotel are more my thing, but ladies, we don't need any man to uplift us! We can do it ourselves, and then worry about picking out the guys. I mean, just say your "Perfect Rich White Guy" decides he prefers Becky, Sue Li and Maria and leaves you, then what? Don't you wanna have your own instead of ending up broke on your ass and humilitated?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tdNxTV9i2c
I don't recall anyone saying anyone HAD to do anything Idngal. If you recall that please point it out for me. What the post says is for those women WHO WANT TO-why should a bw not go for what she wants? And I think I've said Ad nauseum to simply find a good man regardless of color. If you find a good bm, go for it-No one is suggesting you disregard anyone based on color. I find it weird that ppl constantly twist what I say to fit their own perceptions of what the think I'm saying. All I'm saying is -go for what you want. Many bw secretly want to date, mate, and marry wm, but they are afraid. I'm trying to quell that fear, and show bw they have a right to have whatever they want, but they must free themselves from the grip of the bc, and bm loyalty first....
I read this post - came back and saw all of these comments! And quite a bit of nonsense. I really appreciate this common sense advice. I read the Sayles book a few years ago and it warrants a repeat.I especially appreciate the offer of advice without being condescending. We all have different backgrounds and life experiences and it's nice to not have to read blanket statements about how not already knowing these things makes one deficient. If everyone had access to to healthy background and all of the right connections and everything handed to us how would we appreciate our individual jounreys?
i see what you mean sara, after all, i believe that goodness in a man far transcends his race, but what gets people to believing that you're anti-bm is your (no offense) tendency to down them in almost every post. but then again, this is your blog, so you can do as you please, but if you believe that going for a good bm is as good as going for a good wm, maybe you should clarify it more. I've read blogs like Mr. Laurelton Queens who make you seem like you have a horrible disdain for black men period. I feel kind of stupid even going on about this because your readers will most likely hate me now, but I think you would get less comments like the first one (some comments in past posts are just rude) if we focused more on ending the fear you spoke of instead of and demonizing the bc a little less. do you think?
again, ladies, please don't attack me for my posts, i mean no disrespect.
-ldngal
ldngal said...
why do we have to marry up just to be successful? What makes you think a black woman can't do it on her own
We don't have to marry up to be successful! We should always strive for our absolute best: education, careers, finances, etc. However, we should not be expected or conditioned to settle for anything less than a man who has himself has achieved at the same level assuming of course we want a man in our lives. For the record it seems to me that BW have been doing it on their own since the beginning of time and will continue to "do it own her own." Look around BW are raising children alone, buying homes alone, earning advanced degrees, starting businesses, taking care of aging parents, and often raising grandchildren alone! I see plenty of evidence of BW doing it own her own.
INDGAL TROLL...Don't you people get tired? Blah, blah and NOTHING worth while is coming out.
Go to your troll like cave and face the wall and stay there.
A.
Indgal, I'm struggling not to get irritated here, but don't ever come to my blog talking about what Mr L, rocky, or what anyone else thinks of my blog/me. That's not relevant, and I don't give a damn about their opinions. Sara marches to the beat of HER OWN drum -got it? And I don't feel the the need to clearify anything again and again. If you have to repeat yourself that many times, it means either ppl are not listening, or their hard of hearing. And you're right, this is MY blog, and I will say what I want to say, so will my readers. And nobody else is going to come in and censure us...
@ Sara,
One of your favorite people will be on SNL...Gerard Butler.
Hmm, Oprah has Taylor Swift on her show today...wonder why?
A.
Wow.
I have been reading the BWE blogs for a while now, and I have finally decided to "de-lurk" after reading some of the comments in here.
Sara, your post was spot on. Every other demographic understands the importance of marrying well except for BW. Try explaining to White, Latina, Asian, Arab, African and Carribbean women the concept of being a "ride or die" chick who can "hold it down" for her man, I am sure you will gets many blank stares, which the occasional outbreaks of laughter. BW are the only ones who believe this mess.
Marrying up has nothing to do with gold digging. A gold digger is a woman who only cares about herself and her lavish lifestyle. A woman who marries well does so because she wants her children to be properly cared for, and she knows that their survival is based on selecting the highest quality mate possible. I know that may sound extremely obvious and almost like I am preaching to the choir, but there are probably countless women lurking and reading this post who may be confused by the disengenuous remarks left various trolls.
INDGAL is one of those trolls. She is one of the most annoying yet dangerous kinds too. The type who will pretend they have a "legitimate question", engage you in debate, then when you are not looking they reveal their true agenda. You almost had me going with your whole "hear-me-roar sistas-can-do-it-for-themselves" rallying cry, but you quickly tell on yourself by making reference to Laurelton Queens. Did he send you here to troll on his behalf? Pathetic.
I normally do not like to waste my time on trolls but I just wanted the lurkers to understand that many of the negative comments are being made in bad faith by people who either are very bored and amuse themselves by trolling online or are Internet Ike Turners/Ikettes whose only objective is to demean BW and derail these conversations.
They know that if enough BW started demanding reciprocity, BM would be forced to carry their own weight for the first time in decades. They know that is if BW stepped up their game, got out of of "nothin but a BM" thinking and were open to a global village of relationship choices, the inflated worth of BM would plummet.
That is why Sara's post, which was pretty harmless and non-controversial, stirred up so much anger. Why on earth would an article telling BW to continue their education, surround themselves with productive people and select the best mate possible offend so many people? Why are these people so against BW elevating themselves? Because they know that there will be one less BW to take advantage of. DBRs are parasites in every sense of the word.
Sara,
Thank you, thank you, thank you for this post! The "Wall Street" type of gentleman is exactly the man I'm attracted to. Someone wealthy, cultured and intelligent. It is certainly attainable for us beautiful balck women.
Wow the comments are out of control.
@ Karen.
I honestly don’t know where to begin. I only have begun to grasp the concepts of class and class mobility as a result of reading BWE blogs. I think I understand some of the basics that some bloggers were stressing concerning: etiquette (when I was in grade and hs I had to have a class in this), presentation (I did kind of slack in this area bc I didn't want negative attention, but am improving), and as others have mentioned being well read etc.
I guess I am wondering and open to what’s next after that?
Good call Willow.
esp. with Indgal.
@Aphrodite,
What is your wildest dream or what do you envision for your future? Where do you want to be in 5, 10, 15 years?
If you can answer any of those questions, then I can perhaps begin to provide some insight/feedback/advice.
you guys, it wasn't even like that. i don't get it, i'm being called a troll for what? you sound like so insane because you talk about ending one fear for black women, yet you're putting us up against eachother, therefore sprouting a new fear that we can't even look to eachother for support. That's the reason I found this blog, looking for a source of black women unity and encouragement, but i'm not getting that vibe from here anymore. Sara, i never challenged your blog and i believe i explicitly stated that this was your blog and you could do as you pleased. i didn't mean to irritate you by bringing up the queens blog, i only found it because i was researching the bwe bloggers on google. I only said that he makes it SEEM as if you had a disdain for black men, which by your response to me earlier, you said you didn't. I don't see why you allow your followers to gang up on me like this when all i've done was make an observation. I don't recall saying anything rude or outlandish to or about you or your readers. How are we supposed to be able to uplift ourselves as bw if we can't even stop arguing amongst eachother? I could see if I said something rude to you guys but i never did. If i did and didn't catch on to it, i'd love it if you let me know, and i do apologize but calling me a troll and making it sound like i've got some thing going with mr. queens against you guys is stupid because i don't even agree with what he says all the time. Again, I do frequent this blog (thanks for helping me find evia's site too) and I know how defensive your readers are to you, as they have the right to be, but how can we bw who are just starting this journey learn anything if we're instantly attacked over the slightest things? If you know so much more than we do and have experienced so much more than we have, why not teach us who are starting off with this instead of running us away?
Indgal, I am not trying to attack you in any way. But if you frequent this blog at all, I don't understand how you could possibly be unaware of the bad blood between L. Queens, and us.(He's the antithesis of everything we stand for) It's a bit ridiculous for you to say you come here alot, yet did not know. That's why the ladies, and I were immediately suspicious of your motives for being here. We have alot of ppl come here with hidden agendas, and false intentions-so everyone has their guard up-I'm sure you can understand that. No one's calling you a troll for having a dissenting opinion, but I think you rubbed ppl the wrong way telling me I need to clearify this and that, and then mentioning our nemesis... It's odd to me (and uncomfortable) when new ppl whom we are not familiar with, come in and seem to be trying to take over. That's not the conventional way a person new to a group becomes part of a group. First you look for points of simularity (what drew you to that particular group in the first place?) and then later on,(after ppl know you) you might raise your objections, and suggestions. It seems like that would be common sense.....
@ Karen
That is so interesting. I am actually putting together another wish list/vision board to gain greater clarity about what I want. I have always had lists related to my dreams - usually short to mid term. I have achieved some of the items on the list and my desires have changed so it is time to revise.
@ Sara
Wealth
"but usually starts with around a quarter of a million dollars and up."
This is interesting because I would have thought that the threshold would have been higher. Does this refer to cash on hand? Earnings per year? Or total net value including property, investments etc?
Lineage
How do you casually observe this in another? I can recall some conversations on Muslim Bushido where there was the mention of 3rd, 4th generation among AAs, but how do you discreetly asses that about someone else?
Memberships
Is this something we all should strive for? I had the opportunity to join a few clubs in the past. I can't say they were exclusive, but they could have been a start. I passed bc I was so young, couldn't see the value, and am shy. [Trying not to kick myself now] What are some types of organizations one should set their eyes on? Professional, social? How do you go about researching this?
Education
I did not attend a top tier school. My undergrad school has a competitive ranking, but not top tier. My grad school is very small and private and I ended up transferring here bc of a horrible situation. How do you play this card if you didn't go Ivy or other top tier?
I see, Sara, and I do apologize. Mentioning L Queens was in bad taste on my part. As was giving you any suggestions for a blog you run your own way. From now on I'll just stick to the post and offer my opinion to those matters instead. After all, I'm here to learn, and learning is done best with a closed mouth and an open mind/ears. :)
Look at these wm that are going to prison from wall street. In interveiws when asked about the women that they were dating before they went to jail and became broke, the men always say that the relationships has ended. U know why it has ended, it's not so much about them being in jail it's because when their freedom was taken away, the money went away as well.
ITA!
I've noticed that when a middle to upperclass WM loses his money and/or goes to prison, his white wife usually wastes no time in filing for divorce, while many BW will often follow a broke DBRBM to Hell and back without blinking.
@Aphrodite,
That is wonderful that you are already working on such things. You have asked some questions of Sara, so I will defer to her to give you some answers but if I can add anything I will.
Of course, if any specific topics come to mind, please let me know.
Yahoo rrticle re: councilman Bill de Blaisio
http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20091015/pl_politico/28175
@Aphrodite
I know you addressed this to Sara re:
Education
I did not attend a top tier school. My undergrad school has a competitive ranking, but not top tier. My grad school is very small and private and I ended up transferring here bc of a horrible situation. How do you play this card if you didn't go Ivy or other top tier?
Honestly, it depends on what part of the country you're from. The Ivies, Cal-Berkelies, UCLAs, USCs, Vanderbilts, Northwesterns, Dukes, UTs are well recognized but sometimes a school that is competitively ranked can be a boost depending where you are. In my case, I went to a state school here in the Northeast/Mid-Atlantic and after the Ivies, people recognize my school before many of the other comparable schools in the area. I've used my status of an alumni of my university for jobs and preferential treatment many times.
For example: University of Florida. It's not an Ivy but if you live in an area around a lot of alumni, you can parlay that into an advantage.
Excellent post Sara. As usual.
@Lisa-just-Lisa,
Interesting, Bill de Blaisio won.
I read the link you posted and found some information about Harold Ford, Jr.
All I can say is, "OMG".
I did not know he was married last summer to a ww, Emily Threlked she works for a fashion designer.
I have to admit I did not know anything about the Ford family. After, an hour or more of reading about his family. Man, I need a vacation. This family is so corrupt and various family members continue to get voted into office.
Harold and his father supposely is telling people that his mother and grand-mother just pretended to be black and that they are really white?
We continue to blindly vote for people that really do not give a care about the average AA person.
Harold married money, oh pardon me Ms. Threlked so that he could move himself up the social ladder.
Of course, most bm would not have a problem with Mr. Ford marrying up, right?
A.
http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/beauty/french-vogue-does-blackface-since-when-is-this-ok-525789/
vogue did not hire black women but hire white women and painted their face black
how lame
@ Sara,
These trolls are trying to tell you that you are teaching bw how to be gold diggers. At this very moment Nightline has two mature blonde matchmakers on the program and they are instructing this 30something woman about how to marry up. She like to wears shorts and they explain to her that is not good enough to "catch" the right guy.
Well, well, well I suppose marrying up is only for the other race woman. And, I have never seem one of these programs with a bw being instructed on how to marry up. Hey, bw you are on your own.
Thank Goodness for Evia, CW, Khadija, Sara and all of the other BWE bloggers. Keep up the great work. Thanks Ladies.
Ann
Hi there Sara, speaking of Bill,
{I noticed you have his picture up} Even have Sean Penn and new lady, but when I went to Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_de_Blasio#Personal_Life_and_Family
even to "wiki" Sean Penn, I noticed they do not show the pictures of WM with their BW Spouse or GF.... It seems to me that people really don't want that image put out... even though WM/BW IR couples have increased 117%
It is cool that you are posting ways for Blk. W. to grow, but keep in mind that plenty of WM are also middle class {The middle class is in serious trouble in the U.S. but that is a total other subject altogether}, working class, military, and not paid,.... no wait, "Scratch what I just said" you "know" this already!
Take care~
Hi Sara,
I see business has picked up on your latest post.....LOL! Great job love and thank you again for all advice and help you give. Reading your blogs and the other BWE has helped make my decision in going back for my Master's Degree.
I wish these mammy, blame the black woman, still down for my brothers types would just leave black women alone. We have every right to do as we please and we are taking it whether like it or not. So tired of hearing the same broken record message of unity with the black comedy (oops) I guess I meant "community" that we always seems to get from these mammy supporters.
Ladies ignore the haters just smile and nod and keeping walking.
Hello again Sara,
I think a book list would be a great idea. I truly believe posting a book list and the subjects that you do, touch many more women than you think. They may not comment but they are reading because words are powerful.
Thanks for the 'gold digger' explanation. It's sad & hilarious. I hope black women who know their worth NEVER EVER give up on their ideals just to make their community happy. I'm not a big fan of tiger woods but I didn't know he married his nanny. I can bet many of her peers are congratulating her yet I hear many black people speak ill of wonderful bw like grace hightower and serena williams.
Keep up the good work Sara I like your style. The negatives keep posting comments because you are touching nerves and BOY does the truth hurt.
-x-
“um, guys, this isn't the Jane Austen era anymore. why do we have to marry up just to be successful? What makes you think a black woman can't do it on her own?”
What woman wants to spend the rest of her life alone? Or only aspires to having illegitimate children and/or taking care of the random loser/parasite? What a stupid statement. Yes, BW can do it alone -- most have, but we shouldn't have to “do it alone” just to please BM and the BC. They're the only ones who want us to do it alone. No other group of people think it's a good idea, not even the bigots! That should tell you something right there.
Andrea
I dated a WM many years ago, we went out a few times but I knew after the first date that the relationship would never progress beyond a few dates because socially it would have been a step down; he was a few credits shy of a BA and had very little ambition. When I ran into him about 10 years years ago and he was still working at the same dead end job, never managed to finish those pesky college credits, and was still chasing every BW who would look his way; I think every BW he dated had a desire to move up the social ladder not down it and I imagine the same was true of women of other races. So despite his handsome face and interest in BW he was still single and looking.
Hello Ms Sara,
I don't post often and I'm sorry about that. You rock my dear and I love reading your blog. Both of my daughters and my husband now follow your blog as well. You basically post what I've always believed but couldn't express. So again thank you.
Gina.
@ Lisa-Just-Lisa, Just Curious. So, what possess you to post your last comment?
A.
Andrea. The poster said nothing about living alone, having illegitimate children nor taking care of a parasite. She referenced women reaching upper class on their own as opposed to looking for an upper class man. Such a woman could very well be married to an educated independent middle class man such as a school teacher. Such a man is no parasite and would still provide the protection, love and male role modeling that is needed.
It is estimated that 1.5% of Americans identify as upper class. The odds are quite against any woman endeavoring to snag an upper class man, especially if that woman doesn't meet a certain standard of beauty.
Angela, how nice of you to give us your two cents.
This is a blog about black women reaching their maximum potential in every aspect of life. We don't need you to be snide or belittle any woman's attempt to reach for the stars.
Thank you Karen for being so open. I am finding that in making my new list and comparing the old that I use to repeat myself a lot. I was also leaving off 10+ year goals. Before my list had 18 things. Now after restructuring and grouping related things I have about 6-7. I am also finding that my dreams tend to be more practical vs "wildest". So I'm trying to expand.
Thank you KM for the example. :) Scenarios such as that etc helps to make it more concrete and easier to strategize.
@ Angela Reynard
" Andrea. The poster said nothing about living alone, having illegitimate children nor taking care of a parasite...
Such a woman could very well be married to an educated independent middle class man such as a school teacher. Such a man is no parasite and would still provide the protection, love and male role modeling that is needed."
I wouldn't call a schoolteacher middle class. No knock to teachers. But even so most BW are continuing to host parasites so some things need to be stated plainly.
"She referenced women reaching upper class on their own as opposed to looking for an upper class man.
It is estimated that 1.5% of Americans identify as upper class. The odds are quite against any woman endeavoring to snag an upper class man, especially if that woman doesn't meet a certain standard of beauty."
If the odds of snagging an upper class man are so bad then the odds of a woman, especially a BW, who wants to reach the upper class on her own are equally as bad.
The people a BW would need to meet "moving up on her own" are the same circles she would need to circulate in if she were trying to "snag a rich husband".
I would guess that these people don't have a switch that makes them go temporarily blind and brain dead in a business situation versus a social/romantic one- so if lookism has a strong bearing as you suggest, then is is in full effect at all times.
In that case why try to do anything at all?
I lived in a certain area for several years and I must say that the women I saw there- which shocked me - were AVERAGE. VERY AVERAGE. Some were shockingly below average in my opinion.
All the "flash" I observed (and this applies to physical assets) were the wannabes/climbers/newcomers.
I have also been slowly moving in certain different circles where I am now and I noticed that the women in this area are the same. AVERAGE.
When I travel I always stay in certain areas and again noticed that most of the women are AVERAGE.
I haven't been in all "areas" like these across the world, but I would venture to say that an average looking BW woman has as good of a chance as any other woman.
The only thing I noticed was that the majority of the women were thinner. They could have a face made for splitting logs, but they were thin.
Why the push to constrain/temper BW's goals and expectations? Who is this benefiting?
Considering how a woman's survival is tied to her mate's earnings - why not go for the upper class guy? He's going to marry someone - might as well be me.
And if I miss I am still doing ok bc I set my sights high. I may not get the guy in the 1.5%, but its cool bc maybe I can get the guy in the 3%, or the 5%, or the 10% etc...versus starting at the bottom - which is what most BW do.
@Anonymous
"Lisa-Just-Lisa, Just Curious. So, what possess you to post your last comment?"
LOL what "possess" me to post my last comment?! Well I thought I was posting on the topic of social elevation, perhaps I was mistaken and posted in the wrong comment section, if so sorry folks. I'm not quite sure why an anonymous poster feels he/she is entitled to an explanation. If you read the entry re: social elevation perhaps you will understand my post, if you prefer to be a troll and a trouble maker you will not.
speaking of media and not wanting to show pictures of famous BW/WM copules...it seem like the poision has been spread to the UK.
Naomi campbell have been muched talked about lately in newspapers and gossip magz and alot of talk about her russian billionare bf...she was on the beach with him and on different events with him as well.The cap clearly said "naomi out in the lovely sunny beach with her boyfriend"....where is the pic with her AND her boyfriend ? not to be seen! there was only a pic of naomi. Very strange because i have seen this more than a few times and you do notice that something is going on!
it's very irritating and pure propaganda because i have yet to see this with any other famous couples.
It has slipped by me a few times but lately it keeps happening and now it can't be mistaken for "well,maybe they aren't that famous!" or "it's just a coincidence." enough is enough, this is very unsettling for me and screams of sinister "hidden" motives made to "keep us in our place".
@ Aphrodite
You're welcome! Good luck with your plans, I'll definitely be rooting for you!
I for one will be happy when Naomi marries this guy.
A.
Thank you KM. :)
I wouldn't call a schoolteacher middle class. No knock to teachers.
The Average schoolteacher in America makes $47,000 a year. That falls in the middle of the lower middle class range which is $32,000 to $60,000 and is above the national average of $38,000.
Anon. What the heck do hair weaves and korean hair and such nonsense have to do with this post? Absolutely nothing. You trolls are so desparate to stop our discussions, you will resort to the most obvious schemes. Who really gives a damn if you don't like hair weaves. I bet you have no problem with them on Britney, Jessica Simpson, Kelly C. and numerous other wgs. That's right. Many ww wear weaves these days, so take that nonsense to someone who cares your tired opinion....
@ Smarty
Thanks for the info, but it won't change my mind. I know and associate with several schoolteachers. Considering the pay, lack of support, physical risks and dangers, the strikes, furloughs, etc...
Not interested. Never will be.
WW wearing weaves is not the same as a BW wearing a weave. Yes I know WW wear weaves. Hell even rock star Bret Michaels wears weave. I have no problem with anybody wearing weaves. I just don't like some of the reason why black girls do it. Sara have you seen the Tyra Banks episode when they talk about black women hair? How some mothers force their daughter to wear weave or relaxers at a very young age because they are ashamed of their hair. You don't understand how it makes my blood boil. Other women don't have to go through this type of treatment because of their hair. If women wear weave or relaxers because thats what they want to do, I have no problem with it. If a black woman wears relaxers because she has been basically forced to by society thats when I have a problem with relaxers or weave.
Sara you sound so bitter. Cheer up. You never sound happy. There is so much anger in your post. If life is so good then why do you and all the women on this site sound so mad and bitter towards BM, WM, AW, HW, etc? You sound jealous of white women. Deep down are you mad that black men in general don't treat their women the same as white men treat their women. Do you wish you could switch places with ww?
You don't even have the courage to give yourself a moniker, yet, you have the balls to sling mud.
Hair isn't the issue in the black community it's just the symptom.
I have no problems with how black women wear their hair and I would not attempt to preach on the virtues of natural vs. chemical relaxers, but maybe just maybe black women feel the pressure to conform to a certain standard of dress from the men in their own community.
Black women with Eurocentric features are placed on a pedestal, black men referring to women as nappy headed, comics like Martin Laurence making fun of the dark skinned character Pam's hair, or talking about the need to run their hands through their girlfriends' hair etc.
No other community (I’m not a cultural anthropologist) allows the men to make fun, berate and belittle their women for their racial features to this extent.
If you hear any anger in her posts it's because she sees the damage that has been wroth on the women and girls of our community. Where men were supposed to protect, they tore down, where they were to provide they insisted on being provided for, etc etc.
She doesn’t have to do this. She could just concentrate on her wonderful family and keep the lessons to herself. She and others like her believe that it’s important for us to know that there is another way to live. We are desirable as women, we can get out of abusive communities, we can live healthy and fulfilling lives and we can make a wonderful life for our children.
Anon. Darling:
YOU are one who sounds bitter. I'm very happy with my life. And that is not what this post is about regardless. I could ask you if you are jealous of WM? They are the ones running the world, while you fools are running the jails! So I really would not go there if I were you. I really have to moderate better, you trolls seem to slip in every time I turn my back. There is absolutely NO REASON for you to come to this thread on THIS board at all, and certainly no reason for your silly behind to come and talk about HAIR WEAVE!
Think about Princess Di. Although she was enshrined in lineage, money, connections, and social savoir faire, she lacked a degree from a prominent institution (or even a community college). Yet, you'll notice with interest, that she had so many other salient lines of class, that this fact was nonchalantly disregarded, and never hindered her social standing...
She also went to a finishing school
Institut Alpin Videmanette which is now closed.
I am so glad you mentioned the 14 layers of class. I read some of How to Meet the Rich and learned a lot in just that one section. I want to most definately by that book.
Actually Anon. I'll answer your silly question. Although I usually ignore questions by ppl who cannot be bothered with a moniker. I think that if all the men in the world were eliminated, and it was only women. I truly and strongly beleive that WW and BW would be running this world together. Because the only thing that keeps ww seemingly above bw now is the pedistal! If it were to be eliminated, and she were on an even keel with bw, she would find herself in a very tight race....
And as for the remark that many bw are also in prison, you are right and wrong. Yes, there are more bw in prison than ww, however, the majority of the time it is because she has availed herself or involved herself with a damaged man, got caught up in his mess, and ended up in prison. You can check this out for yourself. Police are constantly warning women that most of the women in jail are in there because they've involved themselves with the wrong man. This also goes for many ww who have never had criminal records before, but get involved with a damaged man and end up in prison. This is why it is much better for women to remain alone, rather than become involved with no-good men....
Sara hi, love your blog.
I'm a long time lurker. But I just have a question. Why do these bm come here? I mean this is obviously a place for bw/wm/non-bm why come here? And then they always try to high jack the thread and throw in ridiculous commentary (No one was even talking about hair weave!) I mean why can't we just have our space? Why can't we just enjoy these gorgeous wm pics, and talk about how delicious they are, and just be by ourselves? What's so hard about that. I think they're here to stop our conversations-that's what I think. And I am so sick of it. The wm are scared to comment because they know these jerks are going to jump in and act a fool! I for one, have never been attracted to bm. And I'm sick of them harrassing me and my fine-white fiance every time we go out! and now in a bw-IR forum, here they are again -ready to start something-dammit just go away!!!!
Other women don't have to go through this type of treatment because of their hair. If women wear weave or relaxers because thats what they want to do, I have no problem with it. If a black woman wears relaxers because she has been basically forced to by society thats when I have a problem with relaxers or weave.
Yes there are bw that force relaxers, weaves etc. on their daughters, but there are men who do the same. Most of the time I see bw/wm non-bm they appreciate the natural and the relaxer, braids whatever, but the men in our own community call us everything but beautiful (well that is unless they want something) And yes maybe other women don't force relaxers, but have you not heard of thermal straightening that white and other non-bw do to their hair that is just as damaging as a relaxer? That and thee are other beauty standards that are placed on girls in differen cultures. Apparently you know every black women in the world and why they choose looks that they do. Didn't know you had the skills of the lord.
Sara you sound so bitter. Cheer up. You never sound happy. There is so much anger in your post. If life is so good then why do you and all the women on this site sound so mad and bitter towards BM, WM, AW, HW, etc? You sound jealous of white women. Deep down are you mad that black men in general don't treat their women the same as white men treat their women. Do you wish you could switch places with ww?
How does her post sound angr.
I believe anonymous @ 10:22pm was another race woman.
My Dear Ms. Messy we are NOT jealous of ww. However, all women desire to be treated with respect by all men and especially the men from their culture. And, who is hating am, hm and wm? There is good and bad in every culture.
As far as weaves are concern people of European descent in America have been wearing wigs and
weave pieces since the 1700s or earlier. This country's first President George Washington wore a wig. Men in British government to this day wear wig pieces. Therefore, AA/A women are relatively new to wigs and weaves.
Any woman should be able to wear her hair anyway she chooses as long as she does not harm any one else.
Now can we finally stop making it seem as if only AA women are the only females wearing faux hair?
Ann
Loren...No man should be afraid to make a comment. The trolls are not afraid.
a.
Angel, no part of what you said is true and you know it. And you are not about to use my forum to spread these lies. Leave now troll, and don't come back.
Ha ha ha ha. Angel you are soooo funny! Thanks so much for that laugh. But you know what's funniest of all-check this out
Thomas Sowell, man of reason
Race, IQ, black crime, and facts liberals ignore
by Thomas Sowell (October 8, 2002) extract
Summary: Only by painstakingly going back and recalculating IQs, based on the initial norms, was Professor Flynn able to discover that whole nations had, in effect, had their IQs rising over the decades by about 20 points. Dr. Sowell admits the IQ gap is real and fails to mention it hasn't narrowed.
Quoting Sowell,
...Studies had shown that females predominated among high-IQ blacks. One study of blacks whose IQs were 140 and up found that there were more than five times as many females as males at these levels. This is hard to explain by either heredity or environment...white males and white females have the same average IQs, with slightly more males at both the highest and lowest IQs...
My own research was financed in part by a grant from a foundation that told me to remove any mention of IQ research from the activities listed in my project's application...Many schools and boards of education also did not want it on the record that they had cooperated by supplying data for any such research...A well-known black "social scientist" urged me not to do any such research...As it turned out, the research showed that the average IQ difference between black and white Americans -- 15 points -- was nothing unusual.
The 15 points that you just referred to as ww having 15points higher than bw, was actually the total of bp being 15 points UNDER Wp! I suspect because they lumped bw along with bm. But the bottom line is hon, you better pray ww are not 15 IQ point over bw -Because bw are miles ahead of you all!
And there are 5X as many bw with IQ's over 140 as there are bm!!! Go check it out and cry! Also, you might want to check out the facts regarding crime, I took the liberty to check some out for you....
Ref. http://www.CapMag.com/article.asp?ID=1958
So black girls overall have a much higher IQ than black men. If we look at black crime, black men commit many times the crimes of black women. At the same time, over 70% of the out of wedlock black births are to these same black women. One out of 15 black men are in jail, one out of 100 black women are in jail.
Hi Sara:
What you're saying is basically true. My hubby is a wm principal at an suburban HS. And he says that almost 90% of the blk kids with IQ's over 110 are female. He does not think however, that IQ's are hereditary. He thinks they are man made-IOWs the more you learn the greater your capacity to learn. He says it's not a great mystery (like some of his teacher's claim) He says that the brain makes synapses, (brain connections) that enable one to become smarter as one studies and learns more.(think of the way a muscle builds- and becomes bigger) since most bw read and study far more than bm. This explains why our brain potential expands and we have greater IQ's (according to my husband-this is the reason) So if you're saying we are inherently smarter than bm, I disagree. I think my husband's assessment is more accurate..
That guy S.S. at iSteve is a racist bigot, and his poisonous mindset pollutes all the "data" he posts. He used to spend a lot of his time harassing Malcolm Gladwell, who has no trouble debating anyone about IQ, or intelligence. S.S. is a prolific writer who, unfortunately, is being used as a reasonable source of information.
He's not.
Hilter's people used to spend a lot time distributing propaganda about the "inferiority" of Jews. Remember that next time someone tells you a racist can be a reasonable scientist.
Donna, are you kidding me? You got that info from the blogspot of one of the most racist, biased, tendentious men on the internet. I can't beleive you had the nerve to come here and quote Steve-racist I am -Sailor! That information means next to nothing! And btw, you're not fooling me. I know exactly who you are, and what your agenda is. Donna, or should I say Angel.
GoldenAh said...
That guy S.S. at iSteve is a racist bigot, and his poisonous mindset pollutes all the "data" he posts. He used to spend a lot of his time harassing Malcolm Gladwell, who has no trouble debating anyone about IQ, or intelligence. S.S. is a prolific writer who, unfortunately, is being used as a reasonable source of information.
Girl, thank you! That's what I was just saying-but your's posted 1st. I can't beleive this fool would come here and quote that racist bastard-and actually expect someone to give his opinion credibility! Frankly, I try not to engage in IQ lines of measurement because there are so many different types of Intelligence. IQ simply means Intelligent Quotent. It's just one measure. I learned a long time ago, you can be very book smart (I know because I am) and still lack other forms. I have a sister who is NOT book smart, yet has more common sense than most college professors-and can look at a person, and instantly size them up in sincerely, intent, motive, and veracity... She's always amazed me with her quick mind....
Donna, sorry I accused you of being Angel, your profile came up unverified. But I still would not put any credence into anything Steve S. says... thanks for your comments....
Thanks Sarah. I won't bring him up again now that you have familiarized me with him. Sorry for not looking deeper into my references.
hi sarah i found your blog a few days ago and it just open my eyes and i love it and am all open to IRR . anyway he's not true about BW/WM but i would say the same for BW/AM i hear so much about how am love bw but when they date it never laese and the never so often get married and when they a have familys the am don't stick around.i found all this out on youtube i love asain men (iam black) and wm but i don't want this heppening to me if i date a am and now i like them lesser because of that .the only black and asain that together are bm/aw .please hlep me sarah -rita,16
Rita you need to becareful in listening to media sources. Now some crap has gone down from bw with non-bm like it has with bm. You really need to becareful about listening to hearsay about a group of people. It's just like how crap is going out about bw being mean, masculine, loud-mouthed etc.
I believe I will print and re-read this section closely at a later time. When I hit number 3 it caused me to pause.
I am a BW, double-degreed with a Masters in Education and I am underemployed. It seems the whole years of matriculating at the masters level all I heard was, "It's not what you know but whom you know." As one who knows no one this is disturbing and a smack in the face. I am now over $160,000 indebted to student loans due to playing the game as I have been instructed all my life with encouragement of "Education is the way out". I have never been this poor (with my educated self). I work as a substitute teacher which is PRN.
Yet, I struggle to remain encouraged. I will continue to read, and read and read to learn how to "get connected" and somehow incorporate some of what I hope to find in this post as I read further.
I thank you for being a prsence on the WWW.
Namaste,
LL
Anon. I deleted your arrogant, unasked-for comment. Don't you ever come on my blog, and tell me what to talk about..
To all of the 'new' people who are trying to preach something to Sara on her blog, take that 'you have a lot animosity towards black men' or 'we have to be communally-minded' business you've got going on there and go to BLACK MEN with it!
I'd like to see you say to BLACK MEN up in their face that 'you have a lot animosity towards black women' and 'we have to be communally-minded' stuff and see how much of them will actually listen to you or even follow that advice!
I'd especially like to see how far you get with the black men who are educated and/or financially not struggling and doing very well who give all their time, money, and resources to non-black women and non-blacks in general! LOL LOL
Fantastic post as usual Sarah. Please keep up the good work.
Love from Germany!
Billie
Good topic I look forward to reading more on the topic from you.
Thanks
Lorie "I think class considerations are incredibly important. Many, especially BP, are conditioned to deny its existance or define it incorrectly as simply a combination of wealth and whiteness. It makes me happy to see BWE bloggers also taking this on."
Karen "What still amazes me is how many hold on to the myth that the U.S. is a "classless" society which could not be farther from the truth."
The best lie in America or any society to keep people in line.
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