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These are some of the myths, about why bw are increasingly marrying wm: pic 1. She could not get a BM (she's too dark)
pic 2. She's a gold digger (he's rich)
pic 3. She's beautiful, and wants to piss bm off.
pic 4. She wanted white-looking children...
For some strange reason, some ppl just cannot seem to wrap their minds around the fact that a bw can simply love a wm because of WHO he is and not because she could not find a bm who was suitable or because she is a gold digger, or because she wants to take the easy way out, etc. This is all amazingly crazy to me because as a blk woman, I think we know there is no easy way out. Just like we know that there are very few gold digging bw! Most bw will work for years to bring their dreams to fruition and never think about trying to marry their way out of destitution. As far as the belief that many bw marry wm because they could not find a suitable bm, Well, I guess in some cases that's true. I'm an optimist, but also a realist. And we can all see that many bm are in trouble and are becoming less suitable mates all the time. But I would venture to say that most sistas who marry wm, are marrying him because they have long since realized that a good man can come in ANY color. That is the whole point of this blog, to get bw to open their options. To realize that whatever color he comes in is ok, as long as he is a good man. Don't ever ever short change yourself.
The following conversation took place between a wm (uncle) and a bm (commenter)
Notice how the bm can not seem to believe that the bw in the story really ever wanted a wm....
TB (wm)
My nephew is a lifer in the Navy. His wife is a lifer in the Navy, and when he married her, she already had a daughter. He is white, his wife is black, and his daughter is probably the most attractive and charming lady that I have ever met. She is killer cute.My nephew is a chief and has been voted "Sailor of the year" for his ship, his group, etc, over and over again. He gets to choose assignments in the Navy, but if he opted out, he would have to fight to come back to rural America and live with his family.....
IV: (bm)
Sure, but this is not about intolerance, it is about black women literally giving up on finding an acceptable black husband; of a similar social status. I don't think I have heard of anything quite like this before. At the root of this are the questions: What's happening to black men. And next, why are black women seemingly doing better? And of course one has to wonder about the long term implications.
TB
I don't know if she "gave up" on finding a suitable mate who is black, but she got a loving mate who is serious about raising a smart, well-adjusted daughter who isn't afraid to work for what she wants. I'm not sure that there is a whole lot of social import in the "dating out" idea anyway. If you find a person that you click with, their race is not real important to that relationship, though it may have implications with family, friends, etc.I'm just concerned about the longer-term implications of their eventual retirement. Their pensions would go a lot farther in rural Maine than in San Diego, but interracial couples are rare here, and they would face challenges socially. My wife and I had a house in a fairly nice development, and when an interracial couple bought a house a couple of blocks away, the previous owner (retired state trooper) went around the neighborhood apologizing to people. What an idiot! The new owners are a nice couple. He manages a chain store and his wife operates a day-care center out of their home.I dated a young black woman in college for a bit. That earned me a lot of grief from a couple of black guys who were interested in her, including one HUGE fellow who wasn't shy about spouting racist crap in the dining hall and other public places...
I.V.:
That was the entire point of the story: That black women are starting to date white men due to a lack of acceptable black men.
TB (wm)
My nephew is a lifer in the Navy. His wife is a lifer in the Navy, and when he married her, she already had a daughter. He is white, his wife is black, and his daughter is probably the most attractive and charming lady that I have ever met. She is killer cute.My nephew is a chief and has been voted "Sailor of the year" for his ship, his group, etc, over and over again. He gets to choose assignments in the Navy, but if he opted out, he would have to fight to come back to rural America and live with his family.....
IV: (bm)
Sure, but this is not about intolerance, it is about black women literally giving up on finding an acceptable black husband; of a similar social status. I don't think I have heard of anything quite like this before. At the root of this are the questions: What's happening to black men. And next, why are black women seemingly doing better? And of course one has to wonder about the long term implications.
TB
I don't know if she "gave up" on finding a suitable mate who is black, but she got a loving mate who is serious about raising a smart, well-adjusted daughter who isn't afraid to work for what she wants. I'm not sure that there is a whole lot of social import in the "dating out" idea anyway. If you find a person that you click with, their race is not real important to that relationship, though it may have implications with family, friends, etc.I'm just concerned about the longer-term implications of their eventual retirement. Their pensions would go a lot farther in rural Maine than in San Diego, but interracial couples are rare here, and they would face challenges socially. My wife and I had a house in a fairly nice development, and when an interracial couple bought a house a couple of blocks away, the previous owner (retired state trooper) went around the neighborhood apologizing to people. What an idiot! The new owners are a nice couple. He manages a chain store and his wife operates a day-care center out of their home.I dated a young black woman in college for a bit. That earned me a lot of grief from a couple of black guys who were interested in her, including one HUGE fellow who wasn't shy about spouting racist crap in the dining hall and other public places...
I.V.:
That was the entire point of the story: That black women are starting to date white men due to a lack of acceptable black men.
T.B.
The fact is that there are a lot of black male sailors based out of San Diego, and the fact that they're making it in the Navy with the discipline, training requirements, deployments, etc, implies that there might be a lot of decent, eligible black guys there. She ended up with my nephew, though, and they are perfect for each other, and he is a perfect dad for their daughter.
The fact is that there are a lot of black male sailors based out of San Diego, and the fact that they're making it in the Navy with the discipline, training requirements, deployments, etc, implies that there might be a lot of decent, eligible black guys there. She ended up with my nephew, though, and they are perfect for each other, and he is a perfect dad for their daughter.
You see IV could not fathom in his mind that this couple married for love, companionship, and other commonalities. In his mind, this woman was with her w-hubby because she could not find a suitable bm. This type of thinking is dangerous to us as blk women because it keeps bm in a pool of anger and resentment-thinking we 'belong' to them. The truth is no one belongs to anyone. WW do not belong to WM! And we do not 'belong' to BM. A very dark friend of mine met me recently at the coffee shop we frequent. It's the same one I introduced her to her husband, Steven, at. She was upset and needed to talk. She said that the ppl in her family (esp. the women) were saying that she'd only married Steve so she could have a baby like Brianna. (Brianna is her precious 2 year old, she is blond and has blue eyes) She said they were saying she hated her dark skin and wanted her baby to be as light as possible. Now, I have known her for years and I know that is not the case. She, like me, loves her dark skin, and would never marry a wm to 'lighten her pool' I told this friend not to waste time worrying about what ppl said. I asked her if Steve was good to her. She said he was the best man she had ever had, and that she had never dreamed of being a stay at home mom until he came along. Then I asked her how foolish was it to worry about what other women were saying when many of those women worked 2 jobs and struggled, with no help from their bm baby daddies. While she lives in a beautiful subdivision and is able to finish her degree and be a stay home mom. She actually looked relieved like she needed to hear this from another bw, then she started to laugh...
The point is many ppl will try to imply or state all kinds of reasons for bw dating and marrying out, as it is becoming more and more prevalent every day. Ladies it's important for you to never let ppl get you upset with their own issues. You don't have to prove you are black enough. You don't have to prove you are NOT a gold digger! You don't have to prove a damn thing to anyone. You just have to be your own special self, and give your children the best life you can give them. And I can't think of a better way to start, than with a good husband for you and a great dad for them......
65 comments:
Was there more to this conversation? Their viewpoints are so far apart that it seems like this should really be two separate conversations.
IV: (bm)
Sure, but this is not about intolerance, it is about black women literally giving up on finding an acceptable black husband; of a similar social status. I don't think I have heard of anything quite like this before. At the root of this are the questions: What's happening to black men. And next, why are black women seemingly doing better? And of course one has to wonder about the long term implications.
I agree that most BW can be attracted to/love a man of another race. Personally the things that make a man attractive to me are not dependent on skin color.
But I also think there's some truth in what IV is saying. What if the perceived/real gaps between BW and BM educationally, financially, socially and emotionally continue to widen? Is it really too far-fetched to say that someday BM may be excluded from BW dating pool? Will the BC degenerate to such a point that outdating will be based on a mix of love, preference, and NECCESSITY? Just asking.
I think that the problem is too many black women have placed black men on an iconic level. Because of that, it shocks black men (and others) to find a black woman who dates or marries a man of another race. So in all honesty, I can't blame people for coming up with all kinds of reasons why a black woman would date or marry out. You don't know how many people of other races who have told me that it seems that black women are racist. Until now, the most vocal black women were those who were against IR. I remember back in college, there was a group of black women who led a discussion against IR marriages. I'd also watch talk shows, read articles, and the one against IR was a black woman. This is not to say that most black men like to see bw/wm couples. I'm just saying that part of the stereotypes were enforced by bw.
To make a long story short, I'm glad to see blogs like this and others. Because personally, I resent the stereotype that black women are against IR and ONLY want black men.
yes, Shocol like 2 more sentences, but I took them out to save space. That's what he was referring to.
Andrew, *sigh* you really are crazy, and in need of serious help! I do not give a damn what you or your phoney alter ego Rocky say and think. I don't give a damn what your goes on at your blog. Have never been there and will never go. Why don't you get some help for your obsession with me? You really need it! I've told you over and over say whatever you like on YOUR blog, and stay the hell off of mine! What is so hard to understand about that! You are obsessed, and you need to see someone about it-Please get help!!!
@Taylor-Sara,
A woman in California was found guilty of cyber-bullying. If your harasser thinks it is not a Federal crime, he's wrong!
Also, that IV person was exhibiting classic bm narcissism: everything a bw does is about bm. Sad. Maybe that's why they feel so entitled to harass. It needs to stop.
@LorMarie
Well, the myth is alive and prevalent in the mainstream again.
Charles Blow, a NYTimes editorial writer and black man, felt the need to re-issue this stereotype with regards to the CA's Prop. 8 vote.
He's decided that bw are so desperate and needy for a bm (gay or otherwise) that we help ensured passage of the Prop. I think he meant no harm, although it's hard to be sure these days, but it simply doesn't read well.
I've told you over and over say whatever you like on YOUR blog, and stay the hell off of mine! What is so hard to understand about that! You are obsessed, and you need to see someone about it-Please get help!!!
............
Oh Sara...this poor ugly loser fellow cannot help himself. He is in love with you!
You will forever be the one who got away......
along with Sue, Lisa, Mariella, Jen, Jennifer, Bev, Callie, Desiree....
Oh HELL...I can't name every woman in the world can I?
Sara, from now on, you should not delete Andrew the stalker's posts. Simply post them and keep a record of how many times you have asked him to stop contacting you. When you have a sufficicient number, contact the authorities. They will trace his IP address and have him arrested. What he is doing is the newest form of stalking, and you have asked his crazy behind repeatedly to leave you alone. We are witnesses to how long this stalking and harrassing has been going on. Keep a record, and we'll get his ass! I'll write your email with more information....
Some black men have a hard time accepting that they aren't the only ones desired by black women. Things are changing and some are shocked that black women aren't waiting on them so much anymore.
Kel,
great advice for Sara.
This guy is a loon.
He is not funny anymore! Actually he never was. His whole reason for being seems to be driven by Sara, Evia etc...how sad...except that I don't care.
This is Sara's house, and it is a lovely house. We gather here to have tea. If a crazed stranger showed up, and he was asked to leave and not come back, and he insisted on coming back and sprouting his "beliefs," trying to intimidate and harass, then Sara has every right to contact the police, and have him forcibly removed from her "home." This should be no different.
Keep a record Sara. Keep a record.
Hi Sara,
I've been reading your blog for a few months now, but I've been too shy to post until now. I just wanted to say thank you for all of your hard work to encourage blk/mixed blk women to expect better for ourselves, especially in the realm of healthy relationships. Both of my parents are mixed, and half my family lives outside of the U.S., so the idea of choosing a mate based upon love, character, and common goals as opposed to color/"race" has always seemed natural to me. However, as I've entered my mid-20s, I am starting to realize how much pressure there is upon me as a bw to "stick with my own", even though "my own" includes a lot of other people besides blk americans, lol. Anyway, I'm currently being pursued by a wonderful wm, and reading your site has been a valuable resource. I've been able to discuss some of the issues you've raised in your different posts to gauge whether or not a relationship could work out between the two of us. So far, so good ;) Once again, thanks so much for helping to keep my fears at bay!
anon said. "Some black men have a hard time accepting that they aren't the only ones desired by black women. Things are changing and some are shocked that black women aren't waiting on them so much anymore."
you just put the nail in the coffin. who told them we were going to wait on them. this is a fast paced world. who has the time. like a friend taught me "NEVER WAIT ON A MAN".
Hi Shocol,
I think the necessity for dating out is already here. All indicators are saying to BW if you wish to marry then this is what needs to be done.
I don't see this as a bad thing or one that should be judged harshly.
Its only history repeating itself.
Throughout the history of the US there have been male to female ratio imbalances.
Paraphrasing history here:
If I recall correctly there were more white men than women since the country was established and women were recruited and shipped from Europe to the Eastern seaboard, the South, and even the West to help with settling.
But even despite this, if I recall correctly in places like New Orleans, Charleston, and some parts of Texas institutions such as placage flourished for a long time because there were more available white males than white females and few available black and gens du couleur males for the females of color to marry.
Although white males were expected to eventually find and marry a white woman it was normal that once of a certain age he would secure a placee and have a family. Some maintained dual families and others never married [white women].
They and their children created a highly educated middle class and it was the women of these communities who supported and protected one another. Often the women of the family and community would vet suitable mates for eligible girls/women, get promises for long term care/education in writing, made arrangements for living stipends to be deposited, and secured a place in his will for the placee's children.
I am not suggesting that women become mistresses, but at the time there was no IR so this was the best available to them. Today BW have the option of legal marriage and all of those benefits.
I think it is a testament to the strength of women of color- who were pretty much property and had so much less availed to them i.e. education etc - took care of business to make sure that they and their children had good lives and secure futures.
So I guess I rambled to say that dating out because of necessity is not a bad thing.
Personally, I think black women are beginning to date white men (and other non-black men) at an increasingly alarming rate because black women are getting better educated (although a lot of work still needs to be done). Many black women are realizing the stupidity of the “nothing but a black man” doctrine but most importantly...the NEGATIVE effects it has on them.
I also believe that a lot of this has to do with common sense finally infiltrating black women's minds.
But I also think a lot this is because white men are also becoming a lot bolder in their pursuit of black women. It's not just black women involved, its white men too.
Why isn't there a major article about WHITE MEN dating black women in the media? Hmm, hmm??
I think someone with the ability should take the opportunity to investigate this and promote it in a positive way. I vehemently believe that if “statistics” were publicized in this manner, the number of wm/bw marriages would probably start to jumping threw the roof!!!!!! Heads would start rolling!
Of course BLACK WOMEN are becoming more open to white men, (that we know, it was pretty much all over every major news report) but I think its time we used the media to help give white men a thumbs up, go for it signal.
It's all about how you present yourself!
I have spoken with more mature bw between 60 and 90 yrs. old and they all seem to approve of ir dating. How cool are these women.
ann
Great post Sarah.
I hope that as more black women date interracially, they are aware there is bound to be a certain stranger, passerby, coworker, friend or family member who WILL have something negative to say about their IR relationships. It's up to you to surround yourself with positive people who respect and support you. Keep the haters at bay and even when they fall back, dont let them take you with them.
I think each and every human being is entitled to a life filled with happiness.... that's what we search for daily. It doesnt matter if the person who helps you find that happiness is of another race. Once you find that happiness, its your's for the taking. Enjoy it.
@Kel...
You're raising my hopes too high...Mr Laurelton in 'cuffs...That would be EPIC!
As usual this is a great post, the only thing you should wait on is God, because God is faithful and not men, we have been taught to wait on bm and we get nothing for them, we waste our years and the bm happily get on with their lives and leave you still waiting until it is too late. I have come to realise that our men, not all, but there is a vast majority have no respect, what so ever for the black woman. Once a man asked me to look after his son, he told me he was coming at 3.00 pm, but something told me to leave as soon as 3.00 pm. I did, the person rang me at 4.30 p.m. to tell me he is on his way and he would be in 30 minutes time,not even apologise to say, I'm sorry, I'm late or even ring to say that he would be late. I told him, I was out, he told me what time, I am coming back, I told him, I'm out for the day. Then he want on that he really needed someone to look after his son, I told him, I can't help him. That is why I am very glad for these type of blogs, because bw know that there are men who respect them and who won't keep them waiting. The world has moved on and many of these men realise that they are not the bees knees and women are moving on, that is why they are so shocked and they are coming up with excuses about bw marrying non-black men.
I'm sorry, but I dont like the idea of dating wm out of "necessity", as if the man himself was an afterthought. Truthfully, I like blogs like these, b/c I dont have to argue and fight with bw here over whether it is right or wrong to date a wm; and I dont have to entertain the most retarded questions about the wm I have dated, to bw who are being heavily pursued by a wm, that they are rejecting out of fear. I think it is important for bw to drop this notion of nothing but a bm, and stop spewing off ridiculous nonsense in order to uphold that doctrine. I do think it is what is causing this high rate of singleness, but I think the more important msg to these women is to not lower their values. I have seen too many of those same women reject the non-bm in favor of a bm who already had a woman, who was lower in education, or whatever else. If they dont open up their hearts to other men who are pursuing them, or make themselves approachable by these men, they will remain single for the most part, but I am quite frankly tired of fighting them. I also think that their unprecedented worship of bm, is the only reason other women even want bm. Of all the non-bw I have ever encountered, the only ones who really thought bm were a viable mate (even with all the hype by bw), and not just a boy-toy (or simply out of the question), were the ones who were simply a mess. Intelligent ww who are not suffering from some sort of depression, are not fooled by the hype. They see the madness along with scores of other racial/ethnic groups.
I had a battle to fight myself in regards to my desire to have a dark-skinned child (which I am totally over, thanks to these blogs), but I never said such nasty things about non-bm in order to placate bm. And since my experiences in the past have always been postive with wm (and I know that sticks in the craw of the bm, who have tried to change my opinion on this in the last few months...YOU FAILED!!!)(Sorry Sara, but I know they read these blogs, and have been terrorizing me in real life and via the internet for some time now), I cant deny that not only do I like them better, but there are certain ones, that I am way more attracted to than ANY bm. And as far as my single status goes, I dont find it to be a problem, since I wasn't concerned with settling down, until my last relationship, so I dont really identify with the single rate being a problem for me. I have been the reason why I am single, and I have wanted it that way, when it was the case...for the most part.
@Velvet Queen - I get what you are saying and didnt really know that intricate detail of the history. I had a vague understanding of what went on in places like New Orleans from accounts by other AA bw, but I didn't know the details. But I have to say, to me that just points out a sick and twisted mentality of racism and its institution. I can not see the romanticism in that AT ALL. Yes it is what was available to them, but MAN...THAT SUCKS!! I am happy we live in a different time.
@ GoldenAh- In regards to Charles Blow...ARE YOU KIDDING ME!! With all these churches being run by bm, who are sending these msgs, he really tried to stick this on bw!! Well, as a CA resident I would like to say I definitely voted AGAINST prop 8, and I have never been a homophobe. Did they forget that it was bm who were known to be physically aggressive to gay men. Which is how all the jokes about being raped in jail became popular. And as I recall it is normally bw (and ww) who love to have gay boyfriends, not lovers, but you know, like shopping buddies (Will and Grace). And whether or not they legalize gay marriage, there will be plenty of gay bm who will remain in the closet and available for "marriage for hire", LOL. Anyone who buys this crap isnt using their brain to begin with and should be fined for stupidity to the detriment of society. Can we get some legislation on that please, LOL!!
While I completely agree that it is not inconceivable that a BW could marry a WN simply because she fell in love with him and realized that he is the best man for her, let's face it, a considerable amount of what is driving the growing acceptance of BW to date/marry WN is that they have been abused and neglected by BM. There is no sugarcoating, dancing around, or two ways about that! I do not think this fact should be covered up or ignored.
Also, if BM cannot handle the fact that more and more BW are dating/marrying WM, well that is just too damned bad.
Valerie, I 100% cosign with you when you say a VAST MAJORITY of Black men do not respect Black women. That's the truth, plain and simple, whether people want to hear it or not. Well I say it's high time that Black women repay that same lack of respect by not giving a hoot about Black men and their feelings anymore!
"there is a vast majority have no respect, what so ever for the black woman"
I agree. I am a real hindsight nut, but one of these days I am really gonna catch up.
I remember once I was in Mexico and there were these guys that were following me around everywhere I went they were trying to flirt and some were catcalling etc
But I noticed that there were also some men who became protective of me when they saw how the other men were behaving and did things that discouraged the other men.
For example one guy put them out of a business I entered when they saw I was being followed and banned them from coming inside. Another example is I had several men tell them to back off and I was escorted to my car to make sure that I was safe.
At the time I was grateful, but I have a whole new perspective on that now. The fact that their protective instinct was so strong that some males would extend that level of protection to me as an unknown outgroup female was awesome to say the least.
It was not dependent on my skin tone, hair length or texture, or whether I had been appraised as deserving of i.e. fitting some beauty ideal - it happened because I was just female.
Aphrodite that was so sweet and cute! Nothing is sweeter than a man who knows how to be a gentleman. It breaks my heart that so many sistas have been in the bc so long, they don't even know what a gentlemen looks like....
It is a true myth in my case that non-bm are a second choice. I check out the quality men that I am around. The issue to me is quality, not skin color. Physically I have found men of all hues attractive at some point. The thing that really pulls me toward a man is how I am valued and respected. When I am treated like a lady you will get my attention. Talk about wanting to stick like glue to someone. That will do it every time. I will also say it takes time to determine that.
EmergingPhoenix, I believe it was Aphrodite who addressed the New Orleans subject you were referring to. Not me. Ha ha!
LorMarie - you are so right.
I see the looks when I first enter a place and a BM sees me. He looks as if I am supposed to fall all over him and well just about worship him because he is after all a BM and I am a BW. And I should know that I am to place him on a pedestal at all times.
(I am laughing aloud while typing this - rest assured)
Then I see the looks I get from the same BM when I choose not to acknowledge him or smile at the Non-BM who saw me enter and smiled at me and I returned the smile.
I am teaching my daughter DO NOT deal with anyone no matter WHAT his skin color who does not value and cherish her. She owes no loyalties to anyone because of skin color.
"@Velvet Queen - I get what you are saying and didnt really know that intricate detail of the history. I had a vague understanding of what went on in places like New Orleans from accounts by other AA bw, but I didn't know the details. But I have to say, to me that just points out a sick and twisted mentality of racism and its institution. I can not see the romanticism in that AT ALL. Yes it is what was available to them, but MAN...THAT SUCKS!! I am happy we live in a different time."
@EnergingPhoenix..is there a comment I missed?
a.f.
Aphrodite said...
I think the necessity for dating out is already here. All indicators are saying to BW if you wish to marry then this is what needs to be done.
I agree. I think there is still tip-toeing, even on IR blogs, around saying that it may come to be a NECESSITY. I see all sorts of valid reasons promoted for IR...preference, attraction, compatibility, love, an alternative to DBRBM behavior, etc. But one i don't really see promoted all that much is necessity. Considering the low marriage rates in the BC, it just may be that the odds of getting married are equal to or even better if one IR dates. People would flip out if this was said so boldly without any sugarcoating, or getting lost in a bunch of other valid reasons for IR dating.
EmerginhPhoenix said...
I'm sorry, but I dont like the idea of dating wm out of "necessity", as if the man himself was an afterthought.
From my perspective, it has nothing to do with the non-bm being an afterthought. It has more to do with what I believe about BM. I believe that AA males, as a group, don't value/believe/understand marriage in an emotional or social context. So this places them very low on the list if a woman is looking to get married.
I don't think that any BW should be put in a position where she has to defend her choice of mate. As someone stated in a previous post, BM do not own BW and BW need to get out of the mindset that we "Owe" it to BM and the BC to be "loyal" whatever that means. I would hope that people marry for love and not because they will have pretty babies with "Good Hair" or more European features. No one should justify being happy and making choices that are right for them.
"EmerginhPhoenix said...
I'm sorry, but I dont like the idea of dating wm out of "necessity", as if the man himself was an afterthought."
"Shocol said...
I agree. I think there is still tip-toeing, even on IR blogs, around saying that it may come to be a NECESSITY. I see all sorts of valid reasons promoted for IR...preference, attraction, compatibility, love, an alternative to DBRBM behavior, etc. But one i don't really see promoted all that much is necessity. Considering the low marriage rates in the BC, it just may be that the odds of getting married are equal to or even better if one IR dates. People would flip out if this was said so boldly without any sugarcoating, or getting lost in a bunch of other valid reasons for IR dating."
Shocol, I agree and I still don't see anything wrong with saying that it is a necessity.
I don't feel that places the nonblack male as an afterthought especially with the gravity of him being considered as a husband and life mate.
I also don't see necessity as a validation of the reasoning of some BM, but as a simple fact. There are more BW who who are suitable for and who desire marriage than BM and many of those BW are still waiting on BM and don't consider other men for whatever reasons.
Should these women shift their focus to marriage to any man instead of BM I don't think they should be judged for that. Of course preference, attraction, compatibility, love,will all play a part in the woman's selection of a guy even if she was a former nothing but a BM type, but however she came to embrace the notion of being open to others is her business and doesn't mean that she will love or appreciate her nonblack mate any less.
Just as I am sure there are large segments of the non-black population whom have never considered dating or marrying a black woman and all the myths and speculations that are involved in that.
No matter what the reason, fact is BW have the RIGHT to date out...Bottom line: Anyone who says otherwise is a CON-artist trying to CONtrol...
@Aphrodite
Viva La Difference!
This is what I try to get across to other women...A MAN does not protect predators...If it is not feasible to directly approach them, a MAN would take other necessary action...a MAN does not make excuses or conveniently turns a naive blind eye to predators...
"For example one guy put them out of a business I entered when they saw I was being followed and banned them from coming inside. Another example is I had several men tell them to back off and I was escorted to my car to make sure that I was safe.
At the time I was grateful, but I have a whole new perspective on that now. The fact that their protective instinct was so strong that some males would extend that level of protection to me as an unknown outgroup female was awesome to say the least. "
"From my perspective, it has nothing to do with the non-bm being an afterthought. It has more to do with what I believe about BM. I believe that AA males, as a group, don't value/believe/understand marriage in an emotional or social context. So this places them very low on the list if a woman is looking to get married."....however, some educated bm can find a way to marry
a non-bw.
a.f.
Great great great topic Sara!! Loved the comments as well.
I think 3 things created the "bw want nothing but a bm" myth :
1) Many bw THOUGHT no other man could love them for who they were. They were taught by the ccbc that non-bm only wanted to use them and/or objectify them, and that only a bm could truly love and understand them. Obviously non-bm are NOT the ones who used and objectified bw(and publicly at that). Right? LOL!
2) They feared being ostracized. Doesn't mean they WANTED "nothing but a bm", it's just that they feared losing family and friends. The ABC (acting black crew) says that being attracted to a bm is what is "normal & natural", anything else is unnatural and a betrayal. Bw "claimed" that's what they wanted to make sure they were validated by the ABC, some opted for "any" bm, some chose celibacy. Today, most bw don't seem to give a BLIP, they don't want to live the lives of their mothers and aunts.
3) Others didn't date out because they THOUGHT they "belonged" to the race, that they had to stick to the ccbc because "da po' bm" has it so hard. So even if they were attracted to non-bm, they did not allow themselves to date other than bm because they were taught that the survival of the ccbc was their responsibility.
In my case, I feared dating out because of #2 and #3, I was always attracted to non-bm approached by them RESPECTFULLY. I THOUGHT I had to be with a bm not because that's all I was attracted to, but because I worried too much what others would say, and thought I owed the black community a "strong black family" even to the detriment of my own happiness.
But non-bm have NEVER been an afterthought. I've always been attracted to them. I understand what Aphrodite and shocol mean by "necessity". The only reason so many bw are single is because they believed all kinds of lies, it is NECESSARY for them to accept their attraction to non-bm and date out to realize that what they were taught was all BS. It is NECESSARY to meet men who share your values and respect you, regardless of race.
Black women need to go where the love is, and STAY there.
And, maybe bw can now realize that keeping on those extra pounds were probably another way to keep bw in the "box"...Think about it.
a.f.
"Is it really too far-fetched to say that someday BM may be excluded from BW dating pool? Will the BC degenerate to such a point that outdating will be based on a mix of love, preference, and NECCESSITY?"
---------------------
no it isn't far-fetched. i also think this may be where we are headed.
i used to think that our people would slide into extinction. truthfully... i still think that many will. however now i wonder if the rest of us will start looking more like Dominicans or black Brazilians -- as i am having a hard time imagining black men (in enough numbers) in our future.
i really can't believe it's come to this. maybe i'm overreacting lol.
a bit off topic, creepy, chilling but seriously needs to be seen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGJBRw7JDVs&feature=related&yt I'm late in the game in all of this just found out about this today. Thankfully his ass was arrested after this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGXf6v1i9hY
Sistah's just move on. These dudes are lost and so are some of the bw. Now I know not all bm are like this, but damn you had people agreeing with this fool with the aids video etc. Whats sad is the dumb (and yes there are some dumb ass)bw who are talking about they got his back. The man is saying that he wants to infect millions of black and hispanic girls to scare them, and kill black and hispanic babies because there are too many. To me that would be an indicator that this man is against me. He is my enemy. One dumb ass chick even said she had much love for this fool. I don't care if these videos are not real and the dude is just ranting, but didn't the Virgina Tech shooter do the same thing? It just shows the bc will justify anything a bm does even some bw even when they know that person is doing wrong, or has the potential to. To many are in so much denial. It's sad.
Sara
Chile over on another black blog I like to read. The blogger is promoting an Alpha event. She is encouraging sbw to attend it here in Atlanta. Sara they are charging $233 dollars for the event. Now how many sbw have that type of money right after the holidays and this economy. This black female has a socialite blog for the nouveau riche black bougeoise. The well heeled set who desperately want the IBM(Ideal Black Man). He does not exist it is a fairytale. She has the post up along with comments from these women who are well educated daughters of the talented tenth. They can't believe that bm don't want them for serious relationships for marriage. They are just stuck and miserable. Also she has put a shout out to the bros to post any events where sbw could attend to meet them and their bros too. Of course they will be selective on who may attend these events. Will they advertise the Rio(Brazil) and Swirl events that they have?? LOL
I'm only 18, but I've never had the nothing but a black man mentality. I've also never been concerned with the ABC. And the only place I've ever heard of the "black community" is on t.v. I guess one of the reasons is that I'm Haitian. I came here when I was 9, and my mother only hangs with other Haitians. She's never even heard of the "Black Community." And that's the thing: when people say "black community," I automatically think of AAs. Not West Indians, Africans, Black Europeans, or any one of those groups.
The black men who think bw are dating non-black just to stick to them need to get over themselves. Quick. I have only crushed on one black boy in my life. That was in the 5th grade. It just is what it is. I don't even crush on black celebrities. Sure, I can see that Chris Brown and Will Smith are cute, but Leonardo Dicaprio and Gerard Butler are HOOTTT!!! lol.
For me personally, it has nothing to do with thinking there are no good black men. My brothers are good black men, and they can't be the only ones in America. lol. Even my sister told me that she can't see me married to a black guy. She foresees either an hispanic man or a white man. lol. I want my Cristian Vega!!: http://www.youtube.com/watch?p=927CFD6F41797F61&index=51&feature=PlayList&v=oTE4eIfvbJI
That's my feel good video right there. It always makes me fell better. lol.
Chiming in...I also do not see WM as an afterthought, they are humans worthy of love. They are not second rate/second fiddle men to go for when the BM run out. They are a choice. For me, they are my preference.
"Is it really too far-fetched to say that someday BM may be excluded from BW dating pool?
ARE YOU SERIOUS?!ROFLMO
The smartest and most attractive black and biracial women internationally have ALREADY excluded BM from their dating pool.
Where have YOU been.
Wake up and open your eyes.
That statement of yours anon @ 8:03 pm is a JOKE.
The most beautiful and well known sistas internationally are with WHITE men. Not "brothas".
Get a clue.
And every day more and more of their attractive and smart non celebrity sistas are following suit.
@Anonymous 11:18am
Yes, I am very serious.
As for where I've been, it's somewhere in AMERICA. Before being so condescending, perhaps you should have a basic understanding that this blog is geared to mostly black AMERICAN women. The majority of black AMERICAN women have not excluded BM from their dating pool.
I think BW coming to the realization that we need to expand our dating options in order to live well is not the same thing as an "afterthought". Adding WM and other non-BM to the dating/mating pool may be a pragmatic decision, but that is different from an "afterthought". That term for me carries pejorative (like "sloppy seconds") connotations, and I do not believe that this is the case for most BW who date out. And some BW simply have a preference for WM and other non-BM men - sometimes based on esthetics and/or cultural habits and behaviors. A BW expanding the pool to find her quality man is giving herself more and better choices to find what she wants - I don't think that such a positive change can be accurately described as an "afterthought".
And some BW simply have a preference for WM and other non-BM men - sometimes based on esthetics and/or cultural habits and behaviors.
Thank you for stating this Sandra.
The majority of black AMERICAN women have not excluded BM from their dating pool.
@Anonymous 9:03 PM
@ 11:34 And what do the majority of black AMERICAN women have to show for it?
A 70% single and OOW birthrate.
I'll tell you what the majority of black AMERICAN men are doing these days.
Excluding BW from their dating pool.
So the majority of black AMERICAN women are being PLAYED.>
The point is as stated before is that many probably eventually will.
What comes first is opening their dating options. Small steps here. You can't expect cold the turkey approach. Going to youtube one bw even stated in a response video from a younger bw about what bw should do today with how bw are being treated etc. Anyways the girl asked if she would stay with nothing but bm and the woman responded that she didn't know about that anymore, because they don't seem to only stick with us or have our backs, but want us to always stick with them or have their backs. If anything I think many bw/bgs eyes are being opened with these types of blogs, youtube, online black forums. With younger girls it's going to be harder, because you still mostly have family involved. Especially if you are at an age where you still have to live with them.
I can't speak for any other black woman who chooses to date interracially, for we are all different with different backgrounds, ideologies, etc.
I realize people make assumptions about the reasons behind the actions because many people have a hard time fathoming the fact that true love can exist between people of different races...especially in America where race is still a major issue (sad to say). I try not to entertain such mentalities, for I believe I don't owe anyone an explanation about who I wish to be in a relationship with. However, I do at times give an explanation (rarely), and I do so in a respectful and honest way. Now, if they can't accept my answer, then that's a personal issue that I don't have the energy (or desire) to further investigate...it is what it is, and you can take it or leave it.
@CoolSplash...I think the
20something generation are more likely to go to school together, share in school and out of school activities and that includes dating.
Paterson Joseph (love the actor) is rumored to be the new Who if this is the case I won't be surprised if non of his companions are black.
Back to topic. I have no understanding of why bm (some who are even educated and taught better by their fathers are talking about bw being golddiggers just because we are looking like any other woman in the world for a man who is a provider. But sad to say I notice this in other groups also, those are usually the loosers or the (at the time)immature of the bunch.
I went to school with wb, ab etc., but still most bg were not encouraged to date white or other either by family or peer groups. In college most of the bk hung together. Same with work which actually suprised me since those are adults. You got dissed at work for talking to other people. And these were 20 somethings. Not all, but the majority on all shifts were mostly kids. And mostly black/Latino and Asian some white, but not much.
Check this video out. Apparently in the near future when will (might)out number women in the near future
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=46884106
@ cool_splash1...all I am saying is that today more 20something and younger seem to find it a little easier to hang out with each other.
I suppose I am refering to the north more than any other area o the country. How old are you? My 20something yr. old son doesn't seem to have a big problem with other races and especially the females.
I don't think that age really has that much to do with openness to IR among white men as much as it used to. I have worked in corporate America for the last 20 years, and when I look back I note how many white men were friends and mentors. I socialized with white women and white men on the job and sometimes outside of work. Some of the men were open even then to black women (back then I was a bit "scandalized" by this and never took them up on their opening lines - a decision which I, rather than they, have lived to regret - they have gone on to marry and have kids while I became part of the 70% statistic). So, I guess I'm saying, especially to older BW on these blogs (by older I mean 30's, 40's, 50's and up), don't think or assume that only the teens and 20 somethings have options for dating out - we do also.
And some BW simply have a preference for WM and other non-BM men - sometimes based on esthetics and/or cultural habits and behaviors.
....................
Yep!!!!
And some BW simply have a preference for WM and other non-BM men - sometimes based on esthetics and/or cultural habits and behaviors.
*******************************
My strong preference for white men is based on all 3 of these things.
sandra77, I absolutely agree that it is NEVER too late. I am getting way more attention these days that I ever did in my 20s.
Monday will be my 49th birthday. I am NOT in the dumps about not being married because I know I will be. I am not sitting around at night crying my eyes out. Do NOT allow the age thing to cause you to be in the dumps. You can have a grand life now while pursuing the goal of marrying. A nice, sincere smile goes a long way of communicating confidence and openness. The first thing most men that approach me these days mention is that they love my beautiful smile. At my age I am a little more conservative in my dress, that is, I'm not trying to look 30 years old. LOL It is my smile that seems to get me a lot of attention. The age range of these men is hysterical to me. Some of them probably have no clue that I am old enough to be their mother:)
Good comments...Sandra77
There are some men who prefer a more mature lady.
a.f.
Sandra77 your comments about some of your experiences of your 20 years of being in corp. really resonated here.
I share the same hindsights you do about the decision to 'not' go out with some of the wm in the work environment who expressed interest.
You look back and think, "wow, maybe I passed on someone who would have been a great mate because I was scared off because I am a bw".
Its a thing of being indoctrinated at a young age (sometimes directly and sometimes subliminaly) that bw should NOT consider wm as mates.
Mind games are VERY powerful. It seems that only bw(in the us at least) were given the mantra to stick with our "own kind" so to speak. Now we look back and say, "Ahhh, he/she/they were trying to keep me from exploring outside of bm".
Thankfully, we have come out of the fog.
Also,I definitely think mature aged bw have to get more creative about getting out to meet and greet.
Mia
Also,I definitely think mature aged bw have to get more creative about getting out to meet and greet.
THAT IS THE TRUTH. That is my issue right these days as a mature aged bw:) I WILL GET THERE.
I jump out on these blogs a lot, especially when I sense that young gals are reading. I think gals like me can debunk the lies that many believe and keep them in fear for shooting for good wholesome goals in their lives. This is one reason at times I tell my age on my posts. Even though as of yet I have not met that special someone, that does not mean I'm an ugly worthless spinster.
Getting married will be the icing on the cake of a wonderful life. Making good choices in life when you are young will reap great benefits when you are mature aged. I think all of us would agree that making the wrong choice in dealing with men is probably the worse choice a woman can make because of the dire consequences of that decision, especially when children are a by-product of those decisions. It is imperative that bw have accurate information about what their choices are and to never let what others think about their choices influence them UNLESS of course you are dealing with a maniacal DBR that you need to cut loose. By all means listen to that advice.
Pamela,
I applaud you for embracing your age.
So many of us are afraid of being 30+ but is RIDICULOUS. Why? Everyone gets older. In fact, most of an average person's life will be spent being over 30.
I try not to read too much public media because the slant is to be "forever young". For those who do want to get out and socialize after age 29-30, they create a name for us (I will not refer to the deragatory term here). They do not do that with men.
I'm in the South or South West really and 28. And no I don't have a problem with other races. My mom dated men of other races. When she dated a Mexian my grandmother gave her hell. One he was Mexican and 2 he was blind. She even told my mom that if she came had a white, or mixed race baby then don't bother bringing it home. Well my mom had a muliracial baby my dads mom was half white. My mom told her you said don't bring her home and she said no bring my grand baby home. Hell the woman calls her great grandkids who are biracial half-breeds, mixed breeds etc. so coming from that I can understand why many bw don't even try to date out. Especially if you have brothers who will do the same thing while thy date out like crazy.
That is why I no longer find black men attractive a lot of them think they are God's gift to women. I find that attitude to be the epitome of arrogance on the part of certain black men. I find arrogance to be a turn-off and obnoxious on so many levels.
I don't think all black men are arrogant but the arrogance of the dbrbm losers is quite brazen!
I can see very clearly judging by some of these comments that, ir dating blogs for Black women or no ir dating blogs for Black women, a LOT of Black women still have no clue how much Black men hate them, and want nothing to do with them, especially not marriage or dating.
My sistas, please wake up.
Sandra77,Pamela,
In my first hand experience, I have discovered that most younger WM (20-34 tend to be more open to a serious relationship with a BW while most older WM(35+) are more interested in using BW for sex. I believe that most older WM still have strong racist tendencies/attitudes when it comes to relationships with BW while the younger WM are more evolved when it comes to relating to BW in a non-racist manner. That's why I, personally, prefer age gap IRR's and feel this is an excellent option for BW (eg. Tina Turner's successful 23 year IRR with her German partner who is 17 yr. younger). As BW we age well and our youthful, confident spirit is very attractive to younger WM. This reality was first confirmed to me a few years ago when I met a BW in her 50's who was engaged to be married to a younger WM from Germany. She told me that she and her other older Black female friends were visiting Europe and were having NO PROBLEM finding WM (of every age) who were interested in dating and/or marrying them.
laromana, just about all my male friends have been at least 8-10 years younger. It has been like this my entire life. I suspect that will continue when I ended up dating someone. My mom was 11 older than Dad when they got married. They had a good 58 year marriage until he died March 11. I am definitely open to a younger fellow. It seems to be in the cards for me. I rarely look at men my age because I feel like I am trying to date my Dad. I want to have fun in my relationship.
laromana & pamela on the older/younger discussion...
1000% agreed
(that is a post within itself)
mia
Laromana, I don't know if you're right or wrong regarding older WM, but I personally have no aversion to younger men - bring them on! One of the things I find is that men my own age tend to want a woman about 10 years younger, so instead of dating men my own age, I am faced with dating men 10 years older than I am. And yes, I do sometimes feel like I'm getting stuck with the geriatric set - LOL! So a guy 10 years younger than me would probably be ideal, and I'll still look younger than he does!
Go for it Sandra77.
Younger men have more energy and less worries. Enjoy.
ann
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